To all you 29er's out there!

ok...

so here is another video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km67fjE8DqE&NR=1

if at all, how does that change things? I would have thought for downhill the thing with the biggest wheels and deepest suspension would be better all round? but wuth regard to the previous video, the guy is going to go faster on his own race bike than any other, he's bound to it's set up exactly how he wants it, it's obvious from the second bike the 29'er has really soft forks compared to his race bike.

As an aside, anyone wanting super knobbly 26'' tyres I have some nokian's, wild grippers, panaracers and some halo rage rims for sale?

One more thing i'll say on the 29er v 26er debate, 29ers look much, much better:

http://www.vitalmtb.com/images/photos/10001/92482680_1257865648.jpg?1257865648

I didn't realise you were specifically talking about XC, like i've said above (and many other times) I got a 29er because I would be using it for racing on that sort of terrian, so i'm well aware of how it has advantages in that area.

Yes smaller wheels will be slowed by obstacles more (as i've said previously) but they accelerate and decelerate qucker. And that is an undisputable fact. So if there is a lot of braking and accelerating on the course, it will play into the hands of the 26er.

So how are the MTBs so much slower then? (Cyclocross isn't exactly my area of expertise)

All things being equal lighter will mean better acceleration, both in a straight line and cornering.

Even if you were to discuss other forms of MTBing, be it marathon, single speed, even downhilling, there are now many places where bigger wheels have advantages.
Now that there are more options for strong rims and wider tyres, you have the potential for faster DH times too.

The amount of braking and accelerating on any given course will affect both types of bike differently though...sections you need to brake for on a smaller wheel may be possible to ride through with greater speed on bigger wheels.
MTBing is about maintaining flow, so the less sudden braking and accelerating you need to keep doing, the better.

As for cyclocross...again, the bigger wheels cover ground more quickly than smaller ones. they also sink into the mud less than smaller ones....think of a snowshoe vs regular shoe type of scenario.
They also have more tyre in contact with the ground, so have better traction for a comparable tyre size.

I think you seem to be placing too much emphasis on acceleration...it's not the most important factor of MTBing. If you can maintain a more constant speed over any given course then acceleration is less of an issue.

I personally find 26" look better, but then it's just me, the 29ers look clumsy.

hell, I rather like a 26" DH bike with 24" wheel.

One more thing i'll say on the 29er v 26er debate, 29ers look much, much better:

I'll drink to that!
Especially now the tyre,rim and fork options are better.

I don't know how to embed vimeo's, but here is a nice little vid of Mike Curiak and his friends having some proper fun on big wheels.

http://vimeo.com/14538235

Even if you were to discuss other forms of MTBing, be it marathon, single speed, even downhilling, there are now many places where bigger wheels have advantages.
Now that there are more options for strong rims and wider tyres, you have the potential for faster DH times too.

The amount of braking and accelerating on any given course will affect both types of bike differently though...sections you need to brake for on a smaller wheel may be possible to ride through with greater speed on bigger wheels.
MTBing is about maintaining flow, so the less sudden braking and accelerating you need to keep doing, the better.

As for cyclocross...again, the bigger wheels cover ground more quickly than smaller ones. they also sink into the mud less than smaller ones....think of a snowshoe vs regular shoe type of scenario.
They also have more tyre in contact with the ground, so have better traction for a comparable tyre size.

I think you seem to be placing too much emphasis on acceleration...it's not the most important factor of MTBing. If you can maintain a more constant speed over any given course then acceleration is less of an issue.

Like i've said previously, I use my SS 29er for 24hr races, I looked at the pros and cons of both and figured the 29er was the better choice. Tight switchbacks can be a pain on it, especially uphill ones. Technical descents also (not helped by the rigid fork).

My reason for placing an emphasis on acceleration (for short races at least) is that corners have a limit to how fast you take them, so you'll need to slow down for a lot of them, afterwards, you'll need to get up to speed again. If you've got a stop/start type track that's a lot of accelerating. If not, you won't have so much. Which is why i've already said that 29ers are much better for sweeping singletrack/fireroads.

just provide an link and it'll embedded itself.

http://player.vimeo.com/video/14538235

edit - doesn't work like Youtube but still clickable.

oh, it worked. :]

Like i've said previously, I use my SS 29er for 24hr races, I looked at the pros and cons of both and figured the 29er was the better choice. Tight switchbacks can be a pain on it, especially uphill ones. Technical descents also (not helped by the rigid fork).

My reason for placing an emphasis on acceleration (for short races at least) is that corners have a limit to how fast you take them, so you'll need to slow down for a lot of them, afterwards, you'll need to get up to speed again. If you've got a stop/start type track that's a lot of accelerating. If not, you won't have so much. Which is why i've already said that 29ers are much better for sweeping singletrack/fireroads.

I know what you're saying, but don't forget too, that your bike is a fairly basic model, no offence :]...there are big wheel bikes with angles and geometry that you would find easier to ride in technical sections.
Just like any bike, different frames ride differently.

If the soundtrack to that video were Glee "Don't Stop Believin", McCarthy would be creaming in his pants.

I know what you're saying, but don't forget too, that your bike is a fairly basic model, no offence :]...there are big wheel bikes with angles and geometry that you would find easier to ride in technical sections.
Just like any bike, different frames ride differently.

My bike is a very basic model (basic frame, rigid forks, SS, BB5 brakes) and i'm sure that there are plenty of 29ers (pretty much all of them in fact) that are better at descending (the swept bars definitely don't help). Though I still think having the slightly shorter wheelbase and more nimble handlng would edge out the 29ers. Probably best if we agree to disagree.

If the soundtrack to that video were Glee "Don't Stop Believin", McCarthy would be creaming in his pants.

However this I can fully agree with.

My bike is a very basic model (basic frame, rigid forks, SS, BB5 brakes) and i'm sure that there are plenty of 29ers (pretty much all of them in fact) that are better at descending (the swept bars definitely don't help). Though I still think having the slightly shorter wheelbase and more nimble handlng would edge out the 29ers. Probably best if we agree to disagree.

No...we're going to stay here all night if we have to!!!

:]

As for mary bars not helping descending...i'm sorry to say i disagree again. :]
I LOVE mary/jones bars for downhilling and technical sections.

Jeff jones described it well.
He compared it to trying to push a wheelbarrow full of boulders down a bumpy hill.
If the handles on the wheelbarrow went horizontally like regular handlebars, it would be much harder to control than if they point backwards.

If you think about it, you can see his point.

Andy.W

**
I'd be very tempted to take up mmcathy's offer, and give the 69er route a go. I'd always recommend a bigger, more aggressive, tyre on the front anyway, so why not a bigger wheel.** I
.

This has always been the case with motorcycling (and motorcrossing specifically), and coming from a motor cycling family, my dad (when I was little) brazed a new brace on the rear forks of my dawes bike (with the rigded top tube) so I could have a smaller 24'' back wheel on my bike, that bike with (huge wide cowhorns on it )was envied...;D

I would have thought that the best compromise was the large front wheel (you get all the benifits to get over stuff...anlge of attack..ie the larger radius over a blip is always better ...and then to put the power to the ground, the 26 is better to accelerate with as you have less wheel to move and it's smaller...)
Purely from an engineers/physics point of view the 69 is better...from all angles.

No...we're going to stay here all night if we have to!!!

:]

As for mary bars not helping descending...i'm sorry to say i disagree again. :]
I LOVE mary/jones bars for downhilling and technical sections.

Jeff jones described it well.
He compared it to trying to push a wheelbarrow full of boulders down a bumpy hill.
If the handles on the wheelbarrow went horizontally like regular handlebars, it would be much harder to control than if they point backwards.

If you think about it, you can see his point.

Hah! Don't get me wrong they're fantastic for climbing, but I find they hit my legs a lot when going through twisty stuff. Maybe I need to tweak the handlebar positon if i'm finding them uncomfortable descending though.

Purely from an engineers/physics point of view the 69 is better...from all angles.

Agreed, but I still think 29ers look better (though 69ers do look fantastic).

Hah! Don't get me wrong they're fantastic for climbing, but I find they hit my legs a lot when going through twisty stuff. Maybe I need to tweak the handlebar positon if i'm finding them uncomfortable descending though.

Hmm....never had that problem personally, so again, just different setups i guess.

Also, a small point but I think they look awesome, I tend to get a few shouts from people saying "Go on Mr. Funny Bars!" which I like.

69ers do make a lot of sense...especially if you're a shorter person too.
Biggest downside is that you have to carry 2 different sized tubes everywhere. :]

I'm off to bed...all this lively debating has tired me out! :]

Which type? The more nimble tired or the bigger contact patch tired?

;)

The kind of tired you get from trying to push those silly little wheels through the bumpy sections. :]

Ha. The comments about the ELsworth, have been voiced on other forums tbh. I mainly fell got looks and the name. A full sus would be used to ride up in the mountain tops. Not something I currently have time for. There's a few horst link frames I like too, and a ventana hanging on the wall of a LBS that is closing down (still not that cheap though). The main concerns will climbing and desending. I may even give some dh a shot, at the local ski center (off season, so sans snow). Might be a bit old for that though. ;-)

Or maybe a full-sus 69er?

Even if you were to discuss other forms of MTBing, be it marathon, single speed, even downhilling, there are now many places where bigger wheels have advantages.
Now that there are more options for strong rims and wider tyres, you have the potential for faster DH times too.

Little thing here about some new DH 29er but the guy testing complained about the tyres.

Hey everyone-
I just mounted my Avalanche fork on this bike-
Now the Geo is-
13.75 BB
with a 63.5 HA.

The bike just needs a flat DH bar to get my hands lower and it should be gold.
So far it feels great. Easy to jump- quick around corners-

The Carbon Edge rims are sweet- as long as you don't hit the rim on a rock.
The set on this 29er are the AM rims- I raced them at the 3G at Sol Vista with no problems.
Like John said: I did over shoot the big ski jump in practice and went about 60ft to flat- which must be about 25-30ft down. I held it together but freaked out my 2 friends that saw it. Speaking of- I haven't had a problem with the wind in the air yet.

The biggest issue for a real test of the DH thing is the tires- the WTB's are pretty bad. Side knobs are facing the wrong way and the sidewalls are more like 1.25 ply than 2.
I had to run about 35-40 psi to not flat- and still had a front flat on my first race run.

I've been really jazzed up on this setup- but not convinced just yet that 29ers will fly for DH.
More to come with time on the bike.
Chris