Sapim CX-Ray / London Bike Shop / X Amount?

Pillar, of titanium spoke fame, do some really nice bladed spokes. At a fraction of the price of CX-ray. The black finish is'nt as nice. But important stuff like consistant head shape, and quality of threading, is spot on. They also have the slightly shorter shoulder a'la DT swiss aerolite, which pulls the spoke tighter to the hub flange. This eliminate play, which can lead to failiure.

I have used the PSR XTRA 1422 (2.2mm bladed section, as opposed to CX's 2.3mm), and the **PSR XTRA 1425 **(2.5mm bladed section, which means dremel time for hub drillings). They where both great to work with.

http://www.pillarspoke.com/prodpop.asp?id=50

bought from here:
http://www.bdopcycling.com/Pillar-Spokes.asp#PSR1420

So- Race or Laser for a budget wheel build?

Depends on your weight, and how many you will be using. Laser are a bit tricky to build with due to excessive wind-up.

Well it looks like I need 44, and my target buy price is £25.

Maybe £28, depending on the exchange rate.

Zipp use CX-Rays and claim (although this could be marketing disguised as science) that they are more aerodynamic and require 10 watts less power at 40 km/h than round spokes.

http://www.zipp.com/_media/pdfs/technology/spokeshape.pdf

Depends on your weight, and how many you will be using. Laser are a bit tricky to build with due to excessive wind-up.

80kg/20F/24R

But rim depth is far more important.

50mm

80kg/20F/24R

If your rims are deep/stiff enough.
If your careful to aviod wind-up. Pillar TSR PB2015 might be good (never tried them) 2.2 - 1.5 - 2.0, as opposed to laser's 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0. So stronger at the shoulder.
$39
http://www.bdopcycling.com/Pillar-Spokes.asp

ED: for around £54 you could have stiffer bladed spokes. Which are easier to work with than standard skinny spokes, lookcool (lets face it, we care), and are more aero. Why buy 50mm rims, and then skrimp on spokes?

They are forged version of Sapim Laser spokes so cost comes from all the working done to them after already being manufactured as perfectly good lightweight spoke.

The forging makes them strong and able to take higher tension and also super light. I'm pretty sure some of the finishing has to be done by hand too so hence the £££

50mm

If they are EBay jobbies. Measure the ERD yourself, before ordering spokes.

Will do, those pillars look good - bang on the money.

Brass nipples for DS?

Will do, those pillars look good - bang on the money.

Brass nipples for DS?

The smart builders do this.

I did'nt, but then, weirdly, I had a tiny bit more more tension on the NDS. Due to the triplet pattern.

For carbon rims, try and borrow a tension meter. I suspect my wheels have a lower max tension then yours will. But I've still been paraniod about tensioning them fully. Did a final 1/8 th a turn per spoke, tension only last night.

24R20 F will be fine.u

Is that awesome or outdated?

Which bladed spokes are now recommended or should I not bother?

The cheapest you can get CX Ray spokes for that I've found is £2.04 a spoke. This beats the BC price and you can order as many/few as you need.

Actually you can get them for £1.76 in silver and £2.11 in black +P&P. Exchange rates move.

72 silver spokes = £138.98 = £1.93 p/s
64 silver spokes = £125.00 = £1.95 p/s

72 black spokes = £164.16 = £2.28 p/s
64 black spokes = £147.37 - £2.39 p/s

They come with 14mm brass nips so factor that in too

Where is your source Mr Bear?

starbike.com

Waste of money IMO

Bladed spokes are an affectation for most, the amount of energy/time they save compared to round spokes is negligible. Scientific FACT!

Unless they are large blades on a low spoke count wheel there's absolutely no point.

Spokey wheels are spokey wheels when it comes to the track, just put some open pros on dura ace LF 36h round spokes tied and soldered and get on with it. If you want tubs for indoors get some campag pistas.

If you race then also buy the ffwd disc and carbon front.

Here endeth the lesson.

Thanks Rob!

Spoke to a helpful person on the phone at BC who I believe was Nhatt.

They don't stock the CX-Ray but can order them.

Approx £50 for a box of 20 which seems to be the going rate.

Before I take the plunge, someone please tell me they are worth it.

I intend to ride the track this year with these wheels.

nhatt's not in today... was probably sarah.

sexist innit

If your rims are deep/stiff enough.
If your careful to aviod wind-up. Pillar TSR PB2015 might be good (never tried them) 2.2 - 1.5 - 2.0, as opposed to laser's 2.0 - 1.5 - 2.0. So stronger at the shoulder.
$39
http://www.bdopcycling.com/Pillar-Spokes.asp

ED: for around £54 you could have stiffer bladed spokes. Which are easier to work with than standard skinny spokes, lookcool (lets face it, we care), and are more aero. Why buy 50mm rims, and then skrimp on spokes?

Sorry- missed the edit, to which spokes do you refer to here for £54?