Bike fit / correct riding position

What size frame LHT shall I go for? I'm 188 cm, PBH is 93 cm, ie quite long legs. The competitive cyclist online calculator is suggesting top tube lengths of ~58cm and seat tube lengths of 63-64 cmm c-c.. hmm..
LHT size options are:
58 ST, 58.6 TT (effective)
60 ST, 60 TT(effective)
62 ST, 61 TT (effective)
http://surlybikes.com/files/SURLYLongHaul.pdf
I'm worried that going for a smaller frame will lead to a bigger saddle to bar drop even though the reach might be shorter - I've been riding a 59cm steamroller for about 5 years, but it's quite a "racy" fit with a big saddle to bar drop and longish reach. I'd like something a bit more upright for touring! Will a larger frame provide that or is the reach the real problem?
I'm not sure I can spare £250 to go for a proper fit, I realise that's the answer though..
ps if possible I'd like to avoid a massive spacer stack and 45 degree stem, but if that's what's required...

Is riding bent forward likely to add stress to your hamstrings?

Yes - lower hip angle does

Yes - lower hip angle does

Cheers.
I'll remove the extentions untill after my busy June.

Saddle ~8mm back on the rails today, weight on hands hugely reduced (for the 35 minutes of my morning commute).

Magic!

Internet bike-fit time:

Do I need a longer stem? It feels like I do. If I drop the bars down a bit, will that effectively lengthen the stem as well?

^ If you haven't already used it, this is a great little tool for virtually trying out different stem lengths and positions.

Bike stem calculator

Saddle ~8mm back on the rails today, weight on hands hugely reduced (for the 35 minutes of my morning commute).

Magic!

Hurrah!

Does this mean that Ed was right? :-/

So recently changed cleat positioning because they were plain wrong. Moved them back/straightened them out and now feel fantastic (No shoulder or neck pain), yet suddenly, after pushing hard for any meaningful amount of time, I can start feeling a tightness in my left/front knee, like it's over compressed. No pain, but funny feeling.
Anyone with any ideas?

^ If you haven't already used it, this is a great little tool for virtually trying out different stem lengths and positions.

Bike stem calculator

Thanks, I've been looking for something like that but didn't know how to word it!

Saddle ~8mm back on the rails today, weight on hands hugely reduced (for the 35 minutes of my morning commute).

Magic!

I dont get this?

If I move my saddle back. The next time I sit down. I'll just automatically sit in the same place. Except now theres just a nose to sit on.

Must be my elephant sized arse, having a memory to match.

I was consciously sitting "properly" on the saddle, i.e. ensuring that my fat arse was square on the saddle.

Keen for the post man to bring me my Arione VS so I can stop squashing parts of myself, and therefore be able to roll my pelvis forward more.

Internet bike-fit time:

Do I need a longer stem? It feels like I do. If I drop the bars down a bit, will that effectively lengthen the stem as well?

Looks like you could raise the saddle a touch, and try a 10mm longer stem.

Roll shoulders back, extend sternum forward, work on core strength and shoulders.

Looks like you could raise the saddle a touch, and try a 10mm longer stem.

Worth a try, I had a fit when I got the bike but that was set up for comfort on the hoods, I've got new shoes/pedals and I think the seatpost has moved since then.

Roll shoulders back, extend sternum forward, work on core strength and shoulders.

This is what I like to hear, something free! Planks I presume?
The only thing is I don't feel stretched out enough - like there's not enough room to straighten my back out a bit.

Dude, experiment with the saddle/seatpost/stem position. Even spend a few ££ on a couple of cheap stems, in order to make the bike fit you.

Far better than endless hours of tedious bending, attempting to contort your body into an ill-fitting bike :-)

0 degree stem; which?

Depends on the colour of your bike.

^ Racist

just a black stem

DramHam, once your core can handle it just concentrate on getting your elbows bent at a right angle to get lower and longer. If your forearms are vertical they are just another windbreak increasing frontal area.

Cheers, that's what I'm aiming for but hard to tell once actually on the bike! I suppose core strength will stop me getting so tired too - that photo is near the end of the tt I think.

Dude, experiment with the saddle/seatpost/stem position. Even spend a few ££ on a couple of cheap stems, in order to make the bike fit you.

Far better than endless hours of tedious bending, attempting to contort your body into an ill-fitting bike :-)

Lol-some description of yoga hah!

DramaticHammer - your first post doesn't seem like you are particular unsatisfied riding your bike?

If anyone wants some yoga training to improve core strength, flexibility and their on bike posture then drop me a PM.

I find all age does not help flexability