Any boxing fans on the forum?

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  • Who is this? And why would you do that?

  • Kinda my point.

    Heavyweight division is a lucky punch at the end of the day.

  • Agreed .. and fury .
    I don’t think he’d worry about fury’s punches and once inside .... well ... we will never know

  • There's still a stark difference between fighters with concussive, one punch KO power at all stages of a fight and heavyweights who generally bludgeon fighters into submission over the course of a bout, resulting in TKOs/stoppages. Sure they'll also do one-punch KOs at times but they never have, and never will, have the lights out abilities of Earnie Shavers, Joe Louis, Mike Tyson, Wilder, etc.

  • Yeah, big tall fighters of this era were made for a prime Tyson. That's what he did in the 90s when facing fighters 6'2"-6'5", made himself even smaller in a peek-a-boo crouch to make the big lugs punch down where their punches lost their sting, kill the body and the head will follow.

    Tyson loved quoting legendary fighters like Harry Greb, "When you hit the big guys in the bread basket it's all the same." :-D

    I think Fury is the best complete heavyweight fighter out there right now and he probably would have been competitive with Tyson, up to a point.

  • Wasn't this discussion the plot point of one of the modern Rocky films?

    Some young upstart was determined by a cycling forum to be not as good as The Italian Stallion, so they had a fight to prove it?

    Can we get Iron Mike back in the ring?

  • ^ This is a fighting thread and that's fighting talk.

    See you in the ring. :-D

  • That's very true but a 28cm height difference does seem vaguely ridiculous! It's an even greater difference than Haye-Valuev. Although we all know how that ended, Fury and Valuev are chalk and cheese mobility-wise...

    Edit - Mike Tyson and Haye are also NOT comparable so shrug

  • Charlie Zelenoff. Self proclaimed goat of boxing. He goes around asking random people if they want to do some light sparring and then he goes 100% tries to knock them out. There are hundreds of videos of his antics on youtube. The problem is, he truely believes he is the best, so he challenges real fighters every now and again and occasionally gets whalloped. Deontay being one of them. He sucker punched floyd mayweather sr in his other infamous video.

    He is total trash, most suspect he has mental problems, certainly looks that way.

  • Yeah, Fury is a lot taller than anyone Tyson faced.
    Tactics would still have been the same and the Fury bread basket would have been at eye level for Mike so easier to kill the body.
    It's just getting inside Fury's enormous reach to do that.

  • As my grandad would say...'Blow that for a game of soldiers'

  • Are people saying that wilder was unlucky cos he got hit with a heavy shot and lost his balance?

    Exactly this. Apparently Ali was unlucky when he got hit by Norton in 73 and broke his jaw

  • He just annihilated Wilder on every level.

    Yep. Fury landed twice as many punches and three times as many power punches, which is about as dominant as it gets outside a fourth on the bill, home fight against a journeyman at the York Hall.

    Wilder only had any joy in the second round and it could have gone either way only insofar as Wilder could have landed a knockout punch, which is the ultimate boxing trueism...

  • Yeah, it was a single shot.....just like the single shots that wilder throws.

    Just seems like there is some bias there when one boxer is lauded for his ability to throw knockout single shots then is called unlucky when his is concussed by a single shot.

    As fury said himself, he worked wilder out, found a trainer to help him execute it then executed it. For all fureys faults he doesn't half know about how to prepare for and win against different opponents.

  • You talk surprisingly good sense for a Borough fan

  • On the flip side of freakish knockout power is freakish ability to withstand said knockout power.
    Could anyone else have got back up in the first Fury-Wilder fight after this punch and continue fighting?

    The big knockdown is at the 1:08 mark.

    https://youtu.be/KEB01hlYvTw

  • I notice the original questions were dodged.

    Anyway Fury also seems to be a big fight fighter.

  • I didn't dodge the original questions. I said that I was judging punching power on a fighter's record which is all that can be done, as well as noting that Wilder is of very small stature for a modern heavyweight yet has knocked out 41 fighters in 42 wins where many of the quality fighters would be in the 230 - 280lbs range. This is a rough but more accessible metric to judge punching power. Just remember that in every other division except heavyweight Wilder would be two or three weight divisions below Fury.
    Think if it another way, if Wilder occupied a brand new weight division from 195lbs-210lbs called Junior Heavyweight how many people would he be knocking stone cold and out of the ring into the cheap seats? There would be no-one weighing 260lbs leaning 6'9" of their bulk on them for 7 rounds and bludgeoning them. He would be champion until he decided not to be.

    The rest of what you nentioned are poor metrics to judge performance and opponent quality, as in top ten contenders.
    As in which governing body? WBA? WBC? IBF? IBO? IBC? WBO? Legacy media/social media heavyweight rankings? Maybe the red nosed guy in the corner of the pub who sparred with Calzaghe when he were a nipper?
    Seeing fights like Wilder-Fury are amazing but the sport has been left confused and splintered by alphabet soup shenanigans, asking about top ten contenders when you have ten governing bodies and no single world champion means that such terms are meaningless and throws a spanner in the works of discerning quality of opponents.

    If there was one world championship belt and thus a true top ten then it wouldn't even be a question of whether Joshua would fight Fury. It wouldn't be a choice.

  • Don't think Wilder will invoke a rematch. Tbh Fury put it pretty concisely with pre-fight words to the effect of "I boxed his ears off when we drew when I was half the man I am now so what do you think the outcome will be now I'm in such better shape?" This it turns out was bang-on so I simply cannot see a different result in a third fight and it would likely retire Wilder (making that, albeit huge, payday his last). I mean, what fight 3 tactics could Wilder employ? Run away from Fury and throw 3 hay-makers a round hoping one sticks?

  • Again simply not backed up by reality, Top 10-15 of each org share many names, exactly where they are differs but broad consensus can be drawn.

    I don’t get how you can’t grasp that a fighters record is in large how good the opposition has been. Fans like this are exactly the reason boxing is a mess the obsession with KO’s and protecting a 0

  • ^ A fighter's record being related to the quality of the opposition is obvious. I'm not making a different argument.
    But we're looking at a single aspect of a fighter's toolkit that can be analysed according to his record, even if the opposition quality is in question.
    If Wilder was a non-puncher and he won 41 of his 42 wins by decision with one tko it would be a pretty good indicator of a lack of punching power.
    I'm extrapolating from the available data from his record, the type of knockouts I've seen from him, the fact that he isn't bothered by learning to box in any meaningful fashion as he's been reliably served by his punching power until he met Fury.
    This, allied with his size compared to most of the heavyweight division, seems to suggest phenomenal punching power.
    I think he might be one of the most concussive punchers of all time.

    I'm probably wrong but at least it's motivated you to construct arguments I never made, assign false motive and blame me for the entire state of professional boxing.

    As for the top ten point, sure, other governing bodies share members of a top ten. But it's not consistent and should not exist. The proliferation of so-called world titles is confusing and resultant analyses of boxer's records is distorted. It's why boxing magazines have their own independent top tens to make things easier, but of course their top tens don't line up.

  • Wilder has to have a rematch. What else can he do?

    Wilder is one of the most powerful punchers. He hasn’t knocked out any all time greats and never will. The rest of his game is pretty poor which makes his punch so impressive -it’s got him this far. Check the Ortiz fights. Behind in both and then the right lands. He’s a one trick pony but it’s a fucking great trick.

    I love early Tyson but time hasn’t been kind to his career. Every time he faced adversity, he lost. Which, normally would stop him being considered amongst the elite.

    But... he ran through people when he was barely out of short trousers which imo puts him up there.

  • I generally agree but once you take in to account the quality of his opponents Wilder drops out of a discussion for all time punchers for me.

  • So from now on fighters will try to close in on Wilder, and make him move backwards (as that appears to his kryptonite). How many are there that can pull it off?

    But yeah: Fury would/will dispatch Wilder again there ever is a third fight.

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Any boxing fans on the forum?

Posted by Avatar for VanUden @VanUden

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