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  • That's all news websites TBF

  • People are complicated

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  • I'm obvs not middle class enough to be able to enjoy these things...

    Says the man who keeps stingless bees.

  • makes sites like the M.E.N. accessible again. I forget that others experience it differently.

    (replying to @Mickie_Cricket )

  • It sounds like he was an old school good local mp. Yeah, toed the party line so shit Conservative voting record, but did good for his constituents. Means nothing really though - its a terrible thing to happen to any mp.

    They must be available to people without restrictions that will keep those most in need away from them.

    As a country we really need to find a way back from the division and aggression that is so prevalent. The tory have fomented this attitude and I can't see any way back while it works for their votes. Really unpleasant place to live this country at the moment. 5 years of fucking shite.

  • Ian Paisley (the old one) was greatly loved by the Catholic people of Rathlin Island as he fought to get them electricity as their constituency MP. But occasionally doing the job you’re paid to do doesn’t make you a great human.

  • As an EU citizen living in NI seeing the Tories laugh when they voted against automatic right to stay in 2019 I've no easy answers.

    I don't think the cons voters are all pure bigots, at the same time they tend to deny the consequences of their actions.

    But some many people just parrot easy media answers (yes a bit on the left too) that I'm not sure they really genuinely deeply mean it?

    It's possible the silent majority of their voters isn't happy with the nastiness but where are they going to go with fptp?

    Same time I can get fucked so...

    Then while I understand the scum remark of Rayner it's also not helpful as it increases the unpleasant mood. Yeah sure, universal credit cuts and a mostly right wing media that loves tribalism doesn't help but it just adds to the bickering.

    Politics is in that sense shit, while surely most people want work to pay, good public services etc.

    I guess that the start is that perhaps we need more long term projects apart from politics to improve society?

    And I guess understand we are always somebody's "bad person" a bit of moral humility is perhaps also needed.

    (And I need to stop looking at Cummings Patel and Boris before my reasonable mood vanishes ;)

  • And let's not go kill politicians obviously!

    I don't know the man but it makes me sad.

    It's a hard job too, so much hate on social media. No matter what party you are in. I can't be bothered couldn't deal with it...

  • while surely most people want ... good public services

    Lots of people don't want that. They don't want to pay for things they don't use and would rather pay for things they do use when they use them. 'Why should people without children pay for schools' etc.

  • Why should people without children pay for schools' etc.

    To that the response should be that everybody benefits from a society with a higher standard of reduces crime, boosts productivity etc etc

  • I agree with you but I've met plenty of people that don't.

  • Ok wrong example perhaps... I guess my point is that the division is maybe not as wide as the empty vessels in the government made it look.

    Some bullshit will never go away like "what about that group" and"but the immigrants!!!" or FLEGS!!!

    Still LGBT rights were fought for and gained. We all lose if it's basic two tribe political tribalism and you can see in Northern Ireland it's not the only thing on the table.

    Citizen panels also work, jury duty is another area where complete diverse people can work together productively.

    Right now the conversation and climate is toxic though :(

  • Matt Hancock has had his UN job offer removed and this quote

    “The last thing the African continent needs is a failed British politician.

    “This isn’t the 19th century.”

  • Apparently they offered him the job thinking he'd be resigning as an MP to work for them full time. And he's not.

    What a twat for thinking such a role could be part time.

  • Agreed, but you can condemn political violence without lapsing into hagiography

    So did you really object to it when people said lots of nice things about Jo Cox? I'm sure she was also vilified on-line by hate-filled people, but the mainstream media reaction seems to me to have been pretty much the same as with David Amess. Unless it's a serial murderer or someone like that, people try to say nice things about prominent figures who die. I'm not sure that amounts to hagiography. I maintain that the important thing here is to acknowledge the victim was attacked in his function as an MP. Everything else pales into insignificance.

  • Then they are twats too as it is allegedly an unpaid role and so shouldn't be restricted to people with independent wealth.

  • I think he has used that as an excuse for why he can't do it (despite Gordon Brown holding a position while still an mp) whereas in fact the offer was withdrawn on account of him being both useless and a massive cunt.
    (it may have been phrased slightly differently)

  • in fact the offer was withdrawn on account of him being both useless and a massive cunt.
    (it may have been phrased slightly differently)

    No, that’s actually a direct quote from the press release.

  • I understand that the media have to behave in a certain fashion, yes. Their jobs are largely dependent on presenting politics as a parlour game, where good faith actors have abstract ideological disagreements about how to achieve good outcomes. I don’t see why we are obligated to replicate that behaviour here or anywhere else.

    Do you disagree that we can separate the wrongs of political violence from the character of the victim? If Bolsonaro were to be assassinated tomorrow, would you want the papers to be full of “he was a good man, he was a wise man”? And if they were, would you not acknowledge that would be degrading to civil norms?

  • Obviously, you haven't answered my question. :)

    I'm not replicating any behaviour of the media. Once again, an MP has been murdered, and regardless of political affiliation, that is what matters.

    With polarising figures like Bolsonaro, you'd have a polarised media picture following his demise, just as you had it when Trump lost the election. It's not a useful comparison to two rank-and-file MPs, following whose murders you get tributes not unlike those you'd get for most public figures. Very few public figures get negative obituaries. You really have to be of the calibre of a Jimmy Savile to get one.

  • You seem to have misunderstood me. I’m not calling for negative obituaries, I never made comment about what the press are up to. Someone on here quoted saying that Amess was “decent” to which I raised an objection. I’m not making claims about what the media should do, but about what we as private individuals can do. Which is to say, we can be clear about the wrongs of political violence without unnecessarily eulogising its victims.

    I didn’t answer your question about Jo Cox, because it seemed to be about media behaviour and I’m not talking about media behaviour.

    You haven’t answered my question either ;)

  • UN Should endorse him with that on LinkedIn

  • If also not that most of the people talking about this ‘attack on democracy’ are unnervingly silent on the real and material threats to democracy in the UK (such as it is) - removal of civil rights, banning of protest, clipping the power of the courts, gerrymandering, flooding the HOL with unelected yes men etc and so on.

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