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  • What's got four eyes and can't see?

    A dead mutant fish in the chernobyl fallout zone!

  • Am I close?

  • 6000 troops and counting.
    Russia has also made it internally legal to use their military in Ukraine, not just flashpoints like Crimea, but anywhere in the country.­00035

    Thanks for being bellends Russia.

  • Not that I condone the actions particularly, but the population breakdown does make the region relevant to Russian interests


    [] Autonomous republic within Ukraine
    ] Transferred from Russia in 1954
    [] Ethnic Russians - 58.5%
    [] Ethnic Ukrainians - 24.4%
    [] Crimean Tatars - 12.1%
    [*] Source: Ukraine census 2001

    also I love this:

    and EU foreign ministers will meet on Monday to discuss the situation.

    Clearly nothing will interrupt* le weekend *

  • Yeah. This is the point for me. All this talk about respecting sovereignty (which is BS coming from Obama, anyway, and a bit hard to swallow when you recognize that the government in Kiev isn't representative of the region) is a discussion about international law which risks placing the position and rights of institutions before the desires and hopes of the people who live in places.

  • Any country where a leader can be elected whilst only gaining 4% of the vote in certain regions is always going to struggle I guess, even before it becomes a proxy football for USA/Russia

  • And importantly, the leader right now is not elected, adding ever more complication to the situation.

  • lets go back to tribal boundaries
    screw straight lines drawn on maps by bureaucrats

  • Straight lines drawn on maps become tribal boundaries.

  • Russia gave Ukraine a discount on its gas in return for hosting the Black Sea fleet. Then built a pipeline around Ukraine to reduce its transit revenue, and is building another to deny it transit revenue entirely. The second pipeline, South Stream, the Russians browbeat all the transit states into accepting really unfavourable terms. The EU is now trying to unpick all the crap in the intergovernmental agreements with the transit states to make it less shit. It's all a big power play. Russia wants to keep a sphere of influence to act as a buffer between it and the EU. Ukraine is a big part of the game.

  • they shouldn't have pissed america off in syria
    thats what started the ball rolling

  • ?

    It looks very much like whatever Russia is aiming for in this that they are going to get.

  • putin has played his cards well in the last 12 months
    out did america in syria
    has possession of one american whistleblower

  • Not that I condone the actions particularly, but the population breakdown does make the region relevant to Russian interests

    Then perhaps Putin could put pressure (which could be achieved in many ways) on Kiev for a referendum in Crimea? Rather than that power-mad, soulless, cunt-bag dipping a toe into an armed occupation bath that may well be filled with blood in coming months.

    Ukraine's tortured history couldn't happen to a nicer country. Kind, generous, proud, and warm-hearted people. I've been to Kiev countless times, and Crimea and handful... it pains me that there doesn't seem to be a simple way to let the country govern itself in peace.

  • I came here to post this map of native Russian/Ukranian speakers, and I sense that it compliments the map in Horatios post (although I have't read the full text yet).­02/27/world/europe/ukraine-divisions-cri­mea.html?_r=0

  • Note to self... First read, then post. First read, then post.

    The link in Horatio's post suggests that there are always more and more levels of complexity to an issue and that the map in my post is an oversimplification of the reality.

  • The Ukrainian commander of Perevalnoe, Col Sergei Starozhenko just recently completed talks with the commander of the Russian forces surrounded his base - who apparently identified himself as Alexander A, but did not identify his unit.
    Col Starozhenko told journalists: "There will be no war. We've agreed not to point our weapons at each other, and they will not enter the base."
    He said as far as he understands these Russians came from Sebastopol, but he doesn't know if they are permanently stationed there - or whether they had been brought in from mainland Russia.
    He said that when he asked the Russians what their mission was, he was told: "To keep the peace."

    100's of soldiers surrounding the base. Russia saying little, but doing much.


    For fuck's sake, like someone said upthread, everything was sorted, the dining room's decorated, the garden's licked into shape, now it's WW3 and I never even done nothing.

  • get on with that 100 things to do before you die list ... quickly

  • This is one of those situations where it seems like the obvious conclusion when you look back over the last 40-odd years but was never really dealt with.

    The post Soviet Union Russia is a very conservative, gaudy, nouveau riche state with too much corrupt money that seemingly appears from nowhere. This is all about money.
    Maybe Russian-owned properties and other baubles should be seized and it might get some-ones attention. So many billions are squirrelled away here and in other parts of Europe, I'm sure if it was suddenly less-secure then it would be good political leverage.

  • Russia needs to secure Crimea as it's the base for the Black Sea Fleet. From any Russian perspective it is unthinkable/acceptable to loose their Mediterranean naval base. That is the primary reason behind any attempt at annexing Crimea.

    On top of that their are numerous political and economic reasons, which have been discussed already.

    Finally the uprising in Ukraine is a big fuck you to Putin, and the situation is a defining moment for him - if he backs down, he will look weak, not only to his supporters, but also to those other states who currently are de facto Russian regions in all but name, thus perhaps causing and encouraging further unrest in the region.

    However if he goes ahead with serious military action in the Ukraine, he sets Russia on a path where many of the most powerful oligarchs who have kept quite will be getting very nervous as he puts their business interests at risk by alienating Russia from the international community, and he risks weakling his support.

    This is a situation with no winner, only losers.

  • Maneuvers in Kaliningrad, too.

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Posted by Avatar for Platini @Platini