Broadband Internet & ISP Recommendations?

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  • I'd love to get it but it's not in my area/cabinet yet.

  • Hyperoptic are doing a birthday deal, £20 a month for 1gb, 2 year commitment

    Seems like it's for new customers, but gonna call anyway and see if we can get it...

  • ^ nice.

    Just got my order in for Virgin Gig1 which went live in my area last week. Already getting a steady 500Mb around the house so looking forward to the extra bump.

  • Virgin 1Gbps is what I'm on.

    The download speeds are real.
    The upload speeds are still only 55Mbps.
    There's no IPv6.
    Their router even in modem mode is sometimes an annoyance (sensitive to overheating, takes a while to recover from ephemeral outages, leaks your IP address to malicious websites).

    The download speed is great though and very stable.

  • I've had 1gbps from Hyperoptic for a few weeks now and while fast downloads of large files is great, I still can't get used to downloading small to medium sized files. It's like they're stored locally! Really uncanny to click on a 200MB file and it just be there before you can even double click the fucker to open it.

  • Yeah, VM routers have always been trash. I keep my V3 in a Besta cupboard at the moment, along with the 16 port switch, Sky Q box and Nintendo Switch. Do you think it'll be more sensitive to heat than the V3?

    Now considering if I should bother upgrading my mesh...

    Got 4 Google Wifi pucks (original - before nest). Three of them are hard wired, one is wireless backhaul. I get a comfortable 450Mbps across most of the house / garden on my iPhone / iPad. My TV, consoles and sky are wired downstairs and my work MacBook, smart TV, other Xbox are hard wired upstairs and get full fat 500Mbps.

    Given the above, I'm not sure the expense of a new wifi6 mesh setup is really worth it at this stage...

    Can anyone be bothered to convince me otherwise?

  • Mesh probably not worth the upgrade. 450Mbps is pretty much the max you're doing to get.

    But... if you can get ethernet to your work computer that does make the 1Gbps package more beneficial.

  • Work MacBook is hard wired... got Cat6 running around the outside of the house, up two floors and into a gigabit switch under my desk.

    Macbook current performance (whilst on a teams call)....


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  • Yeah... the 545Mbps you've got is more than you'd need for WiFi only devices.

    The 1Mbps only makes sense on cabled devices.

    This is what I see (also on a conference call), and mostly the benefit is peace of mind:


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  • Any idea why the ping time is so much slower on Virgin than on Hyperoptic?

    Based on my half arsed knowledge of how they deliver to a property I can't really see why there should be such a big difference.

  • Could it be WiFi?

    I get 1ms ping on speed tests on my wired PC and about 6ms on my phone over WiFi.

  • Any idea why the ping time is so much slower on Virgin than on Hyperoptic?

    Based on my half arsed knowledge of how they deliver to a property I can't really see why there should be such a big difference.

    Too many variables for a reasonable discussion.

    6ms is approx 500 miles travelled at the speed of light (roundtrip)... but you're not getting the speed of light as you start on WiFi or ethernet cable. So let's start with the fact that you're already not achieving the speed you need to be the theorhetical minimum ping.

    Then there's topology... how many hops are you passing through? How congested are they?

    Then there's security... which of these hops / middleboxes are inspecting the ping? which is applying a security policy before forwarding?

    Then there's physical distance... are you right next to the Docklands where the signal will be direct on cables and optics... or are you in remote Scotland where you'll bounce off of a satellite first?

    In the end... your ping is your ping, it's not based on just the ISP, and the ping doesn't matter greatly unless you are playing games.

    If you are a gamer... then you only care about ranges:

    • <20ms = low ping
    • 20-50ms = acceptable but not ideal
    • >50ms = high ping
    • >150ms = don't even bother playing.
  • Sure, I understand that level of explanation but I suppose I was wrongly assuming that number of hops tends to be relatively in the same ballpark if you're talking about two people in a roughly similar urban environment and using the same ping test servers and who are connected to their local exchanges in a roughly architecturally similar way.

    The difference between my HO ping times and your VM ping times is about the same as between my old BT ADSL and a 4G connection.

    My hyperoptic connection still goes to a green box in the street (via a switch in our block) and then via fibre to the local telephone exchange. Its not like its a radically different approach. Its just that I've noticed that Virgin Media tends to offer slower ping than HO and wondered if there was something about the last few hundred meters that was different.

  • The difference is that VM isn't using the local telephone exchange.

    Comparing traceroute/tracert outputs would be more instructive.

  • The difference is that VM isn't using the local telephone exchange.

    I thought that it varies, depending on whether Virgin have a facility close to the customer. I thought that in some cases, Virgin just have their own cages in the local exchange. I could be wrong though.

    Edit: Confirmed. In 2009, Virgin started using BT provided backhaul for some pilot services and started to do it on a larger scale since 2010. No idea what % of Virgin's service touches BT locations or backhaul, could still be a small amount. Just being a pedant as usual.

  • To clarify, I mean i thought that the part at the top of this diagram could be located in local exchanges in some instances. The blue and orange links might also be BT owned in some cases.

  • Could be, but rarely in London. It's more in the sticks where there's little other infrastructure around.

    [EDIT] Also, even if it does end up in a BT exchange the egress is likely to be on a completely different backhaul network than BT's, so there will still be huge differences between the two services despite them going through the same building at one point.

  • From a very quick chat with a technical architect at Virgin I gather Virgin are doing what they can to reduce their dependency on BT too.

  • Just plugged mine in...

    This is wired, two floors up, with cat6, through 2 switches and around the outside of the house.

    Assume it will settle over the next few hours and increase to closer to 1Gb


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  • Any chance you could post results of a tracert to BBC.co.uk? Obviously hide your IP if you like...

    Still curious as to why Virgin gig has latency above 10ms.

  • I'm getting this installed today, replacing Virgin Media 200 which had crept up to £57.50 a month.

    Community Fibre package is 300mb promised speed, £25 a month fixed for two years.

    They offer speeds up to 3gb, but we really don't need anything above what we've had for the last two years.

    I'll let you know how it goes.

  • Still curious as to why Virgin gig has latency above 10ms

    it doesn't always, but is around that number for me.

    fast.com = 9ms / 980Mbps
    speed.cloudflare.com = 9.6ms / 873 Mbps
    speedtest.net = 10ms / 912 Mbps

    at least the ping is in the same ballpark and it's stable, the speed bounces around depending on how it's measured and the methodology, etc

    Edit: Just tried the Cloudflare one again to get a screenshot of the candle chart showing distribution of ping times and now it's 13.7ms 🤷

  • Even my FTTC VDSL2 has <10ms latency to bbc.co.uk:-

    ...
    Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [151.101.128.81]
    over a maximum of 30 hops:
    
      1     3 ms     1 ms     2 ms  192.168.1.254
      2     7 ms     6 ms     5 ms  172.16.11.56
      3     *        *        *     Request timed out.
      4     7 ms     6 ms     5 ms  31.55.186.176
      5    14 ms     7 ms     7 ms  195.99.127.192
      6     6 ms     8 ms     7 ms  peer8-et-3-0-0.telehouse.ukcore.bt.net [62.6.201.224]
      7     8 ms     7 ms     6 ms  195.99.126.83
      8     8 ms     7 ms     6 ms  151.101.128.81
    
    ...
    
    Pinging bbc.co.uk [151.101.64.81] with 32 bytes of data:
    Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=8ms TTL=57
    Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=57
    Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=10ms TTL=57
    Reply from 151.101.64.81: bytes=32 time=9ms TTL=57
    
    Ping statistics for 151.101.64.81:
        Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
        Minimum = 8ms, Maximum = 10ms, Average = 9ms
    
  • I'll let you know how it goes.

    Thanks, I actually signed up this morning. I’m working from my parents house for the foreseeable, and I regularly use every single inch of their 100mbps down 10mbps up, and it’s ridiculously slow still. it wasn’t sustainable so I’m getting the same package you got -fingers crossed it delivers!

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Broadband Internet & ISP Recommendations?

Posted by Avatar for guy_ho @guy_ho

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