Ride for Tibet

Damn, got held up at work, and didnt know the route!! Went past the embassy on the way home but it was all too late! :)

Was it a good turn out??

this article is littered with factual inaccuracies, easily refuted. It's conclusions are applied with Friedman-like, neo-conservative logic.

Dark times indeed.

I've just read most of the wikipedia article, which I personaly think is quite balanced.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#Tibet_under_The_People.27s_Republic_of_China

yeah, i didn't say i thought the article was correct, but that there were some interesting points. anyway, thanks for the link, i've skimmed it briefly and look forward to reading it properly soon.

Damn, got held up at work, and didnt know the route!! Went past the embassy on the way home but it was all too late! :)

Was it a good turn out??

it was cool - will get some photos up and post the link. about 75 riders, a good range of pepople - some CTC hippies (some really interesting people), switched on regular riders on mountain bikes, some tibetans, people on bromptons, recumbies, and a couple of very hot fixed riding girls who I didn't get to chat to :-(

Cookie and I reprazented for lfgss, you can see his loverly yellow whitcomb in some of the pics. We ended up at central drinks.

bad points were a couple of altercations with taxi drivers, lack of sufficient numbers to really make an impact, and the fact that we couldn't actually stop at the embassy, just ride around it.

I saw it ride past the pub I was at & it looked a bit under populated with overscaled music and a mumbling man on the mic. Still the thought was there!

slideshow: http://www.flickr.com/photos/25287245@N08/sets/72157606757949334/show/

Why dont you all ride your bandwagons there...

On a more serious note, although China certainly does have its problems (much like our support of illegal wars, torture, rendition flights, holding suspects without charge for months if not years) naive, ill advised and often down right ignorant protests in support of a tyrannical theocracy really get on my tits. What is it you want for Tibet? They were fucked on their own and now they are slightly less fucked and its only improving along with the rest of China, would you rather see a return to the halcyon days of Tibet the Shangri'la when slavery abounded and monks lived like princes? You would laugh if i rode around wrapped in the northumbrian flag demanding autonomy, and i know why, because its not hip and probably by pure accident you know too much about britain's politics and people to know it would not work.

Salmo - well said.

Though I suspect some of the over-simplification of the Tibet issue is because "more autonomy and greater protection of minority rights in Tibet" is a bit of a mouthful and "The Dalai Lama seems like a thoroughly nice bloke" isn't really a policy.

A lot of this is just fashion, though. After 9/11 a lot of the bright young activists I knew sported beards and keffiyehs and were suddenly very knowledgeable about goings-on in the Middle East. Had it been the 1960s or 1970s they would have sported beards and Maoist literature and been very knowledgeable about goings-on in Latin America. In the late 1990s it was the WTO. I don't really remember before that, I wasn't particularly interested in politics then.

Tibet was an independent country invaded by the Chinese and has been 'illegally' occupied for the last fifty years. One of the arguments put forward for this invasion was that the people of Tibet lived as feudal serfs and that the Chinese were the Tibetan people’s liberators. This is an interpretation that many Tibetans today are taking issue with. To take the attitude that they are better off under the Chinese is condescending the same argument applied to the Basques or the Welsh would be dismissed by nationalists in these regions out of hand. Whereas Basques and Welsh have a degree of economic, political and cultural autonomy the Tibetans are subjected to mass imprisonment, constant heavy security and patriotic education campaigns. The comparison to Northumberland is somewhat disingenuous a closer comparison would be the highland clearances.

Salmo, you're welcome to your point of view, however wrong (in my opinion) you may be. I was in Tibet in January and I can tell you that the rights of the indigenous people are most definitely not being improved by the wave upon wave of state sponsored chinese immigration, or the brutal approach of the chinese government towards basic human rights. There is no freedom there, and ordinary people are arrested, tortured and killed simply for thinking about the injustice of the situation.

Events such as the ride on Friday are not designed to directly cause change, but to raise and maintain awareness of this problem.

"If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading."
Lau Tzu.

it was cool - will get some photos up and post the link. about 75 riders, a good range of pepople - some CTC hippies (some really interesting people), switched on regular riders on mountain bikes, some tibetans, people on bromptons, recumbies, and a couple of very hot fixed riding girls who I didn't get to chat to :-(

Cookie and I reprazented for lfgss, you can see his loverly yellow whitcomb in some of the pics. We ended up at central drinks.

bad points were a couple of altercations with taxi drivers, lack of sufficient numbers to really make an impact, and the fact that we couldn't actually stop at the embassy, just ride around it.

Hi! were you on the orange bike with the white deep v's? i did notice a couple other fixed riders and waved hello but was blanked?! then was riding with my pals throughout. i think the 'two hot girls' you are refferring to was me and my mate sally (not saying i think i'm hot but we were the only 2 girls on fixed!) white ganwell pro and bianchi pista??

sorry to that i didn't reply re. routes and wotnot but i posted this ages ago and got 2 responses then it went dead so i didn't bother checking in again. this ride could've been much bigger if we allowed more time to organise. there will be another one so i'll keep you posted. thanks for coming and supporting!!

When I hear tibetan old enough to have lived and remembered Tibet pre-1949-51 tell me they were better off under fuedal theocracy I might change my opinion, 20 something tibetans who smash up embassasies and attack guards because they want to free their 'homeland' because they have shitty job or aren't doing well in uni and need something to blame it on will not persuade me to abandon reason and logic in favour of fashion.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Send forth the best ye breed--
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness,
On fluttered folk and wild--
Your new-caught, sullen peoples,
Half-devil and half-child.

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to naught.

Take up the White Man's burden--
No tawdry rule of kings,
But toil of serf and sweeper--
The tale of common things.
The ports ye shall not enter,
The roads ye shall not tread,
Go make them with your living,
And mark them with your dead.

Take up the White Man's burden--
And reap his old reward:
The blame of those ye better,
The hate of those ye guard--
The cry of hosts ye humour
(Ah, slowly!) toward the light
"Why brought he us from bondage,
Our loved Egyptian night?"

Take up the White Man's burden--
Ye dare not stoop to less--
Nor call too loud on Freedom
To cloak your weariness;
By all ye cry or whisper,
By all ye leave or do,
The silent, sullen peoples
Shall weigh your gods and you.

Take up the White Man's burden--
Have done with childish days--
The lightly proferred laurel,
The easy, ungrudged praise.
Comes now, to search your manhood
Through all the thankless years
Cold, edged with dear-bought wisdom,
The judgment of your peers.

Been there, done that, got the fucking postcard sunshine.

Take up the White Man's burden...

Been there, done that, got the fucking postcard sunshine.

eh??

When I hear tibetan old enough to have lived and remembered Tibet pre-1949-51 tell me they were better off under fuedal theocracy I might change my opinion, 20 something tibetans who smash up embassasies and attack guards because they want to free their 'homeland' because they have shitty job or aren't doing well in uni and need something to blame it on will not persuade me to abandon reason and logic in favour of fashion.

uuummmm.....what 20 something tibetans do you know that have shitty jobs or doing badly in uni are going round smashing up embassies or attacking guards (if not in self defence)?? strange because all the tibetans i know (asside from doing very well for themselves) follow the teachings of the dalai lama who, against ALL odds and provacation has always maintained that peace and non-violence is what humanity should live by. so, once again, where are these down and out angry tibetans going round smashing up embassies looking for a scapegoat??

i certainly didn't give up my friday evening to go on this ride to be fashionable, but rather to support my tibetan friends and their families; many of whom know life before and after china's occupation and are still in tibet; where their national flag is illegal and preaching the name of their spiritual leader warrants kidnap, imprisonment and torture. now tell me, where is the reason and logic in that?? i'm VERY glad you didn't come on this ride. but i'm even more glad, *for you *that you had the choice of not coming on this ride. If you 'rode around wrapped in the northumbrian flag demanding autonomy',at least you would only get laughed at.I hope you have a nice day.

Tell me though, what you want Tibet to become? Would you see all the han chinese forcibly removed? The dalai lama and his goverment (only the prime minister of which was elected, in 2001 the first democratic election in 'Tibets' history) just step back into power?
It really does seem to me that Free Tibet means nothing too you beyond being seen at protests and getting a warm tingly feeling, you claim these protests raise awareness, but all you do is attract other people like your selves out too socialise. If anyone isnt aware of Tibet not being free having been given 60 fucking years to come round then they are no use whatsoever in improving the lives of ordinary Tibetan people.

The white man's burden was the concept encompassed within kiplings poem that Empire was good for it's subjects because the Imperial subjects benefited from the Empire. The idea of course was completely bankrupt as time and time and time again it has been shown that people value freedom and self determination over economic and political stability. I don't need a lecture on the benefits of colonialism by a pro-chinese my people ran the largest merchantile Empire the world has ever seen. I have got the postcard and I have that t-shirt.

Again why would i go on a ride that supports handing over a weak and unstable Tibet to an undemocratic theocracy? Its like returning afghanistan from the russians into the hands of the taliban.

^ get off your high horses, people.

Pro-Chinese? Is that what i am? How i wish i could go through life seeing everything in black and white, it must be so simple.

When I hear tibetan old enough to have lived and remembered Tibet pre-1949-51 tell me they were better off under fuedal theocracy I might change my opinion, 20 something tibetans who smash up embassasies and attack guards because they want to free their 'homeland' because they have shitty job or aren't doing well in uni and need something to blame it on will not persuade me to abandon reason and logic in favour of fashion.

Tell me though, what you want Tibet to become? Would you see all the han chinese forcibly removed? The dalai lama and his goverment (only the prime minister of which was elected, in 2001 the first democratic election in 'Tibets' history) just step back into power?
It really does seem to me that Free Tibet means nothing too you beyond being seen at protests and getting a warm tingly feeling, you claim these protests raise awareness, but all you do is attract other people like your selves out too socialise. If anyone isnt aware of Tibet not being free having been given 60 fucking years to come round then they are no use whatsoever in improving the lives of ordinary Tibetan people.

Again why would i go on a ride that supports handing over a weak and unstable Tibet to an undemocratic theocracy? Its like returning afghanistan from the russians into the hands of the taliban.

sure salmo, you said that in your first post. Do you have anything else to add?

you're on 8 posts, 2 of which have been here. Let's play a game, shall we?

You joined the forum cos riding fixed is cool (even though you dont), and you "miss" being in London* where you grew up (*guilford) whilst you're in your first year at uni in newcastle. Your intelligent, but cocky with it, and you think having counter-revolutionary opinions makes you cool and interesting to girls. You're studying social science and it's a breeze. You're an eldest child, (possibly an only child?).

Am I close yet?

You give the impression that you don't really care, and whilst I'm tempted to say that deep down you're insecure, the truth is that you don't know yourself well enough to be insecure. It'll come, it'll come, when you finally truly realise how much of a conceited naive dick you come off as. It's not that your wrong, just that you have no idea how to actually formulate an original idea of your own.

now, run along, douchebag.

If you support Chinese colonialism then yes that makes you pro-Chinese. Yes it is that simple sunshine.

^ get off your high horses, people.

elephants man, elephants!

@t-s-b: +ve rep man, I'm learning here.

You read me like a book, fred.

You joined the forum cos riding fixed is cool (even though you dont) - I ride single speed.

and you "miss" being in London* where you grew up (*guilford) whilst you're in your first year at uni in newcastle - I grew up in the north east.

Your intelligent, but cocky with it, and you think having counter-revolutionary opinions makes you cool and interesting to girls. - You read me like a book, although I would not consider approaching the problems in Tibet with reason and dose of caution 'counter-revolutionary'.

You're studying social science and it's a breeze. You're an eldest child, (possibly an only child?). - I am indeed an only child although i dont study social science.

Yes i probably i am a little insecure, and i can understand the conceited dick comment, but in this situation i think it is you who is being naive.

I dont support Chinese colonialism though? I would like to see a free Tibet, a secular Tibet where the monks are not imprisoned but also where they dont hold huge political sway and live off the backs of the Tibetan people, I dont want to see Tibet handed over to an undemocratic, untried goverment loyal too and reliant on the US goverment, I dont want too see Tibet fall back into the medieval state it was in before the Chinese invasion (and i call it in invasion although i still think it benefitted Tibet).
The truth is, the free Tibet campaign will never achieve this and this bullshit, "The idea of course was completely bankrupt as time and time and time again it has been shown that people value freedom and self determination over economic and political stability" is rediculous, freedom and self determination doesnt feed your starving children, although im sure the monks would find it compliments the feasts they eat everyday.