Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

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  • Cheers, will keep a look out for those Bitex hubs. Was looking at the BX106F/R but as I've already got 6-bolt rotors it's a no brainer. Need to learn about spoke lengths, but what's a good, reliable spoke for not too much money. The XR31RTS and those Bitex hubs has the build at £245. Going 28F/32R with my Covid weightgain

  • All spokes are spokes, get whatever doublebutted you want.

  • All spokes are spokes

    Hard to argue with that.

  • I have two sets of 20/32 wheel sets, because that's how I came across the hubs and it is reassuring to have a rear wheel that feels like it can survive a fair impact or two. However, don't rule out 20/28, see discussion upthread on ideal spoke count.

  • You can be big and have super low spoke counts but you need deep and/or wide rims

  • Only because I read the Schraner book recently and found what he says about spoke breakage really interesting, where are yours breaking?

    If you haven’t read the book, he says (iirc) that spokes don’t break purely because of load, they break because of lack of tension or because they are moving in the hub flange and getting stressed.

    He recommends replacing a broken spoke once and increasing the tension on the whole wheel. If another one breaks, rebuild the wheel with washers under the spoke heads.

  • iirc

    I'm not familiar with the author, so I'm not going to rip into him based on your paraphrase. It would help if you'd go back to the source and tell us exactly what he did say.

    Meanwhile, everybody wondering why loose wheels might break prematurely is directed to AvE's recent crane collapse YouTube vijayo in which he explains why loose bolts suffer accelerated fatigue, since the principle is the same.

  • I only borrowed the book (it sells for like £400 used) so cannot remember exactly...

    Someone has very helpfully created a pdf which can be accessed foc.

    I don't think there is a specific paragraph that sets it all out but some quote I can quickly pull down,

    "The lower the spoke tension, the more the
    spokes not under load tend to bend. They
    spend their short lives being bent and
    stretched, bent and stretched."

    "Spoke holes of over 2.3 mm in the flange are anything but ideal for use with 1.8 mm or 2.0 mm
    spokes. If no washers are used before the spokes
    are laced, then the spoke will have a certain
    amount of play, it will move in the spoke hole
    every time the load changes, extends the diameter, becomes brittle and breaks at the elbow."

    Ah, here we go, I had it slightly wrong.

    "When replacing spokes which have broken at the
    elbow always use a washer under the new spoke.
    After the repair has been carried out, check the
    tension of every spoke on the wheel and - in most
    cases - increase the tension. If spokes later still
    tend to break on the wheel then I recommend
    replacing every spoke, using a washer beneath
    each one."

    But yes, AvE makes the same point in a way that's infinitely more enjoyable to digest.

  • I'm not sure there's anywhere that he says specifically "spokes don't break because the rider is too heavy" or anything but it's more that he does talk in detail/at length about the aforementioned other reasons why spokes break so as a reader I interpret the lack of mention of rider weight or wheel usage as 'he doesn't think these things are relevant'.

  • I interpret the lack of mention of rider weight or wheel usage as 'he doesn't think these things are relevant'.

    Your interpretation is wrong, service conditions are highly relevant, but as you surmise not because a spoke is ever likely to fail by simple one-cycle overload exceeding its ultimate tensile strength, but because the extremes of the fatiguing cycle are greater under severe conditions.

  • I only borrowed the book (it sells for like £400 used)

    Say what? I'd better dig out my copy and put it in a safety deposit box.

  • I'd take Shraner's advice in the book with a pinch of salt though. He's very 'old school'. For example, he's a big fan of tying and soldering spokes, which Jobst Brandt proved is a complete waste of time. He's not wrong about slack spokes leading to spoke failures though.

  • Fine but what do they all say about snowflake pattern? /2007 rang wants its jokes back

  • Gert is not a fan. Says its 'a waste of time'.

  • There’s one on Abe books now for £60 but last time I looked there was two on there for £400+.

  • Schraner’s is the only book on the subject I’ve read so far.

    Should really get a copy of Jobst Brandt’s book.

  • Ok, got you. Big picture.

  • Should really get a copy of Jobst Brandt’s book

    There's a PDF, which since Jobst is long dead I feel no guilt in pointing out.

  • Anyone got bright ideas for lacing up a rim that has no holes in the rim bed? I'm fine placing the nipples but preventing them backing out while engaging the spoke threads under compression sounds challenging. Thinking about using a small vice-grip pliers or tiny clamp to grab each one to hold it and carefully turn to get some threads.

  • I think someone was looking for an 11sp Shimano/SRAM freehub?

    I have this CHO-13 SEN-06 freehub in the parts box.

    Pretty sure it fits a wide range of rear hubs, FLO / Velocity / Novatec / Planet X


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  • I just use my fingers. Hold the nipple with one hand, undo the ferrous magnetic insert with the other, put down insert, use now free hand to insert spoke into nipple, turn nipple.

  • Hope it's that easy, cheers.

  • It's doable if you leave the spokes pretty slack when you're lacing the wheel, then wind up the tension later.

  • I'm about to lace this rim up, and the label is annoying me; do I build it so it's readable when sat on the bike (i.e. the same orientation as in the photo), or so the chevrons move in the direction of rotation?


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  • The correct answer is to peel it off :)
    ... Or lace it so it’s readable when sat on the bike

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Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

Posted by Avatar for eeehhhh @eeehhhh

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