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@dogsballs
seen them ;) , thanks though. the second one is for post 1955. the first one is a very very very rare pre 1955 and will probably go for riduculous money (first one i've seen and i've trawelled ebay for 6mths). from my research, after the war through to 1955 not all holdsworth's came with a metal badge, due to the shortage of metals. seems my frame was one of those as b4 it was sent to mercian i scraped the metal back on the headtube (getting back to some original paint, metallic blue with white lug lining) and there were no holes or file marks where it could of been removed. rest of the frame inc head-tube and bb grease nipple threads etc untouched. so it will stay without them.