London Fixed-gear and Single-speed

There is a lot of crap and ignorant stuff spouted about riding a bike and being a bike rider. Drivers and media people use these myths to attack. It's good to have the ammunition to deal with these inane comments and I hope this thread will help. (Perhaps this thread will collate information for a myth-busting website or sticky thread.)

Here are a few myths to start with. Feel free to help bust them.
1. Cyclist don't pay road tax ----- Road Tax doesn't exist roads paid for by all kinds of general taxation
2. Riding a bike is dangerous ---- Everything carries a risk, accidents per cyclist km are very low
3. All cyclists jump red lights ---- Some cyclists are just as annoyed as you about RLJing
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil ---- it might not be but it is illegal
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer ---- Recent CTC campaign stopped this becoming law
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet ---- lots of preventative steps you can take also see 2
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;) ---- Actually can be enlightening, i'm sure someone has some stats on this too
8. Cyclists should keep to the left out of the path of cars ----- no, take the primary position.
9. It's OK for motorists to stop in a cyclist ASL -----
10. Cyclists should get registration plates, insurance and licenses ---- No (cost and lost health benefit outweigh gain)
11. Cyclists should be made to wear lycra and day glo jackets ---- drivers should look where they are going
12. Most bike accidents are the cyclists' fault ----
13. Badly ridden bicycles present the same threat as badly driven cars ---- Force = mass x acceleration
14. Cyclists should be segregated from traffic ----
15. red light jumping on a bike is really dangerous ----
16. Speed limits apply to cyclists ---- they don't but there are offences such as cycling furiously etc
17 Cyclists should obey all rules that pertain to car drivers (e.g. one way streets) ----
18 bikes should have a bell ---- only need a audible alert and most of us can shout
19. you can be arrested for being drunk in charge of a bike ----
20. On a bike it's best to filter to the front of the queue at lights down the left ---- filtering can be dangerous / legally overtaking is done on the right in most situations.

1. Cyclist don't pay road tax
2. Riding a bike is dangerous
3. All cyclists jump red lights
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;)
8. Anything Ed Scoble says is useful, correct,experience-proven information

Leave Ed scoble critique in the relevant thread.
1. Cyclist don't pay road tax
2. Riding a bike is dangerous
3. All cyclists jump red lights
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;)
8. Cyclists should keep to the left out of the path of cars

1. Cyclist don't pay road tax
2. Riding a bike is dangerous
3. All cyclists jump red lights
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;)
8. Cyclists should keep to the left out of the path of cars
9. It's OK for motorists to stop in a cyclist ASL

1. Cyclist don't pay road tax and neither do car drivers.
Both pay a vehicle tax based on grammes of CO2 emitted by the vehicle per km travelled and as a bicycle emits none the tax is nil the same as for an electric car.

We all pay for the upkeep of our roads through council tax anyway so just calm your fucking tits down.

A BMW 1 series, really? If you can't afford a 3 why would you fuck around with one of them?
It's embarrassing; your friends all laugh behind your back and you know you should have got a Golf for the same money.

I think adoubletap just receded into his own mind in that last paragraph

More info about 1. the road tax myth here http://www.ipayroadtax.com
And Fiat remove that expression from their ads as well as promoting sharing thebroad
http://www.bikebiz.com/index.php/new...ampaign/012524

In response to number 2;
If I was cycling on the road and a car sped up behind me and hit me, then that is a danger, it also cannot be helped with any amount of cycling skills as the responsibility is with the driver. Therefore riding a bicycle CAN BE dangerous.

Surely what that tells us is that driving a car is dangerous?

Derailed in 8! Who had ticket number 8? Yay!

I dont know how you came to that conclusion.

That is an anecdote . Walkers crossing the road get hit too so walking is dangerous?
how about comparing the modes like how incidents occur per mile travelled by differnt modes?

1. 'road tax' or Vehicle Excise Duty pays for the DVLA registration of motor vehicles, not the roads. Roads, lighting and all things associated with highways are paid for by general taxation. The DVLA plays no part in the infrastructure of highways.

1. Cyclist don't pay road tax
2. Riding a bike is dangerous
3. All cyclists jump red lights
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;)
8. Cyclists should keep to the left out of the path of cars
9. It's OK for motorists to stop in a cyclist ASL
10. It's impossible to fart whilst pedaling

Walking is dangerous, most things in life are dangerous, if dangers can occur whilst performing a certain action, it is deemed dangerous.

About 9. -- it is acceptable and legal, under certain circumstances, and for motorcycles in any. No?

So what you are saying is, pedestrians should have licence, reg plate and insurance too? Gotcha

1. Cyclist don't pay road tax
2. Riding a bike is dangerous
3. All cyclists jump red lights
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;)
8. Cyclists should keep to the left out of the path of cars
9. It's OK for motorists to stop in a cyclist ASL
10. Cyclists should get registration plates, insurance and licences

1. Cyclist don't pay road tax
2. Riding a bike is dangerous
3. All cyclists jump red lights
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;)
8. Cyclists should keep to the left out of the path of cars
9. It's OK for motorists to stop in a cyclist ASL
10. Cyclists should get registration plates, insurance and licences
11. Cyclists should be made to wear lycra and day glo jackets

It's the car that is causing the danger. That scenario is only dangerous because of the car. Take the car out of the equation the danger evaporates.

Repped, liking the refreshed adoubletap.

Yes if the lights change while they are on one. Motorcyclists do use them all the time which sort of makes sense. Stopping them is almost unenforcablenans not a major issue as they are generally respectful of cyclists priority in them

4. Cycling on the pavement is only acceptable if you are pre-pubescent, after that point you are a cunt and/or paedo.

"We must try to put ourselves inside their skin and look at us through their eyes, just to understand the thoughts that lie behind their decisions and their actions."

"Rationality will not save us"

Robert McNamara

That's good.
So drivers should get on a bike before getting a driver's license, to help them understand why we do what we do, and figure out what they need to do to not hurt/annoy us?

THAT is something I would campaign for.

1. Cyclist don't pay road tax
2. Riding a bike is dangerous
3. All cyclists jump red lights
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;)
8. Cyclists should keep to the left out of the path of cars
9. It's OK for motorists to stop in a cyclist ASL
10. Cyclists should get registration plates, insurance and licences
11. Cyclists should be made to wear lycra and day glo jackets
12. Most bike accidents are the cyclists' fault
13. Badly ridden bicycles present the same threat as badly driven cars

It would be great to work out the costs associated with bike registration, licensing and maintenance per head. Folk don't like the idea of spending more money.

come on now leave lycra out of this now

1) The best article that I have so far come across on the economics of the road is in this blog post here. It very simply demonstrates that when you're using the road but not in a motor vehicle then you are subsidising motorists very heavily. On top of that, VED, like many taxes and governmental expenditures are neither linked nor contiguous on upon usage.

Fund the Bicycle Rider Registration Authority with an increase in "road tax". Then see if the micro-Clarksons are still keen on it.

5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer

Then magically disappear when the lane ends at an inconvenient place. Only reappear when lane begins where ever that may be. And certainly not approach and maneuver at a junction as if a bicycle was a road vehicle

great link
How do we get links referred to in this thread to be listed. Is that linkback? never used it myself

1. Cyclist don't pay road tax
2. Riding a bike is dangerous
3. All cyclists jump red lights
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;)
8. Cyclists should keep to the left out of the path of cars
9. It's OK for motorists to stop in a cyclist ASL
10. Cyclists should get registration plates, insurance and licences
11. Cyclists should be made to wear lycra and day glo jackets
12. Most bike accidents are the cyclists' fault
13. Badly ridden bicycles present the same threat as badly driven cars
14. Cyclists should be segregated from traffic

Ace logic, love it.

15. Traffic lights are necessary

wrong thread?

It is ridiculous to suggest that cyclists should use cycle lanes. If they did they might scratch the cars parked there.

perhaps 15. RLJing on a bike is really dangerous

2) This is really going to depend on the subjective definition of danger and how that is measured. This will vary from person to person. In reality, the internal fears that someone promoting this viewpoint externalises as an opinion that cycling is dangerous are what need to be debunked. As a category itself the only real counter argument that I can see is that the comparator of KSI vs per mile travelled, whilst admittedly higher, is relatively close to that of other forms of transport. Thereafter simple mitigative actions radically increase the safety of cycling way beyond other activities on the road. Sorry, not a snappy answer there but this was always going to be a complicated subject.

One more quote for now:

"It is better to ask for forgiveness, than to ask for permission"

Just get out there and ride like a decent person. That will get more results than talk.

16 speed limits apply to cyclists
17 Cyclists should obey all rules that pertain to car drivers (e.g. one way streets)

please can we leave lycra out of this.
many people rely on its manufacture and use and discriminating against this most aesthetic fibre demeans the argument

Just factor in health benefits of regular cycling and you have an answer

18 tweed makes good cycling clothing

1. Cyclist don't pay road tax
2. Riding a bike is dangerous
3. All cyclists jump red lights
4. Pavement cycling is dangerous and evil
5. Cyclists must use cycle lanes where they're safer
6. The best way to be safe is to wear a helmet
7. Cycle training is only for n00bs ;)
8. Cyclists should keep to the left out of the path of cars
9. It's OK for motorists to stop in a cyclist ASL
10. Cyclists should get registration plates, insurance and licences
11. Cyclists should be made to wear lycra and day glo jackets
12. Most bike accidents are the cyclists' fault
13. Badly ridden bicycles present the same threat as badly driven cars
14. Cyclists should be segregated from traffic
15. red light jumping on a bike is really dangerous
16. Speed limits apply to cyclists
17 Cyclists should obey all rules that pertain to car drivers (e.g. one way streets)

18. The cyclist should always look to see if the parked car door is about to be opened.

"We must try to put ourselves inside their skin and look at us through their eyes, just to understand the thoughts that lie behind their decisions and their actions."

I don't drive, but even I can tell how scary it would be to see a cyclist riding down a one way street whilst I am driving up it, there should be no reason to be cycling the wrong way on a one way street, likewise there isn't a reason for cars.

Safety > Time taken to get to destination, with no compromises.

I'm going to bring up red light jumping too, the chances of something going wrong whilst abiding by the red light law, are far lower than the chances of something going wrong whilst jumping one, hence why the law is around. Fair enough in some circumstances it is safer to jump a light, but if this was implemented into law, more people would jump lights, and there will be more casualties, thus making a riskier/more dangerous law.

What we are saying about motorists, is the same general category of complaints, as motorists are saying about us, fair enough a lot of the points are valid, and cyclists are disregarded quite a lot, but just because of this, it doesn't mean every problem on the road are car drivers and cyclists should be immune from specific traffic laws.

I don't want to sound like I am ranting, anyway, debate can be the greatest form of education, and is that not what forums are for? Fire away, prove my points wrong.

On the continent it is normal for one way streets for cars to be two way for cyclists, what I was getting at is that it should be normal (and lawful) here too. If motorists were expecting cyclists there would be no problem, and as almost all one way streets provide a more direct link for cyclists it would probably have a safety benefit.

There are other rules for drivers that could usefully be waived for cyclists, left turns at red lights, being banned from pedestrianised areas are two that spring to mind

If cyclists start using the cycle lanes, where the hell are the peds going to walk?