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The Times Cycling Campaign
 
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Old 2nd February 2012   #1
Sparky
 
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Cities fit for cycling

The Times is running a very special front page tomorrow, sneak peek here: http://twitpic.com/8ehuh2


They're launching a cycle safety campaign called Cities Fit for Cycling, with this manifesto:



  1. Trucks entering a city centre should be required by law to fit censors, audible truck-turning alarms, extra mirrors and safety bars to stop cyclists being thrown under the wheels.
  2. The 500 most dangerous road junctions must be identified, redesigned or fitted with priority traffic lights for cyclists and Trixi mirrors that allow lorry drivers to see cyclists on their near-side.
  3. A national audit of cycling to find out how many people cycle in Britain and how cyclists are killed or injured should be held to underpin effective cycle safety.
  4. Two per cent of the Highways Agency budget should be earmarked for next generation cycle routes, providing £100 million a year towards world-class cycling infrastructure. Each year cities should be graded on the quality of cycling provision.
  5. The training of cyclists and drivers must improve and cycle safety should become a core part of the driving test.
  6. 20mph should become the default speed limit in residential areas where there are no cycle lanes.
  7. Businesses should be invited to sponsor cycleways and cycling super-highways, mirroring the Barclays-backed bicycle hire scheme in London.
  8. Every city, even those without an elected mayor, should appoint a cycling commissioner to push home reforms.
You can sign up and support it here:



http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public...afety/contact/
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Old 2nd February 2012   #2
skydancerdonor
 
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Repost
Capaigning thread and news thread >>>>>>>>>>
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Old 2nd February 2012   #3
cliveodonor
 
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The Times Cycling Campaign

Even if you hate Murdoch, it is worth having a gander at The Times today. Their front page is devoted to their new cycling safety campaign, launched following the serious injury to one of their young reporters.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #4
wvmdonor
 
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This story relates to this rider down thread.

Sadly she's still in a coma.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #6
skydancerdonor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky View Post

Save our cyclists!
  1. cyclists being thrown under the wheels.
  2. The 500 most dangerous road junctions
  3. cyclists are killed or injured
  4. Cycle safety
  5. Businesses should be invited to sponsor cycleways
  6. appoint a cycling commissioner to push home reforms.
You can sign up and support it here:
Crap campaign. The language they use would put anyone off cycling. They've got the wrong end of the stick. Cycling isn't dangerous, (driving is). Why not a 'Tame our drivers" Campaign. I'd sign that one!
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Old 2nd February 2012   #7
Balkidonor
 
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signed.

EDIT: language aside, they dont sound like bad ideas?
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Old 2nd February 2012   #8
skydancerdonor
 
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The best way to save our cyclists is to get more cyclists. This will put non cyclists off cycling. Because of the language.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #9
Balkidonor
 
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Hmmmm... I guess.

Surely having one of Londons biggest papers rattling the cage is a good thing though? All those sensors on trucks and stuff... That probably would never have made this article had it not been for the publicity around the CEMEX stuff.... and maybe as a result of this, that idea might gather momentum. I dont know.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #10
skydancerdonor
 
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However many mirrors and alarms safety bars we put on lorries the drivers need to look. And anyway it is the private car drivers not lorries that kill and injure most. Better to act to put people off driving, Tolls, higher fuel tax, enforcement and massive penalties for driving dangerously.

We know how cyclists are killed. By car drivers not looking when turning and driving to fast and on the phone. Slow them down, get drivers used to sharing the road, create shared spaces like exhibition road where and make less space for driving and more for walking and cycling.

Why should businesses sponsor cycling? The state should be responsible for make are street environment livable for all.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #11
Balkidonor
 
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Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skydancer View Post
it is the private car drivers not lorries that kill and injure most.
I did not know this...
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Old 2nd February 2012   #12
adroitdonor
 
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^^ I agree, that would be the better campaign, I do think the Times campaign is a knee jerk reaction by a lot of car drivers faced with the horror of an injured cycling colleague.
They could campaign for proper justice for carelessness or recklessness behind the wheel
There is some good in it, just not as much as there could have been.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #13
j.m.f
couldnt help wondering about the conversation in number 10 this morning

Call me Dave comes into the office to get his briefing for the day from Sir Humphrey

Humph-
"morning sir, bit of bother in the Times today, cycling again, seems a bit hot at the moment"
Callmedave
"Oh really, tell me more"
Humph-
"Well theyve got this campaign, breaks down to few things really not too much to worry about but it is front page, think that it might be worth doing something"
Callmedave
"Ah, I see, (skim reads paper) well didnt we get daft to do a cycle lanes thing a couple of years ago?"
Humph-
" Yes, the local authorities didnt do anything with it as we didnt tell them they had to"
Callmedave-
"Nonsense anyway, that time I rode down Whitehall I didnt need a cycle lane, besides, theres not enough room to build stuff all over the place, think of something else"
Humph-
"We do have Justine now, shes a bit of a looker, perhaps a photocall sir"
Callmedave-
"Yes, good idea Humph, ask her to ride down to P.M.S questions from here will you, she can borrow my bike"
Humph-
"and the press release sir?, this isnt the 'Deckchairecho' needs to be something worthwhile"
Callmedave-
" Yes, well do some sums, say a couple of million for cycling schemes, it wont touch the sides of the daft pot, and anyway the HS2 will take up everything they have next year anyway"
Humph-
"Yes minister, that should do it"
Callmedave-
" Right then, well done, we cant have these things getting too big, I mean whatever next? the Mail calling for kids rights, saying theres millions of children unable to play out and grow up properly because of our transport priorities?"
Humph-
" God forbid sir"
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Old 2nd February 2012   #14
Brave
 
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Jack Thurston of Resonance FM Cycle show has just tweeted a link to Le Monde article stating that ZERO cyclists were killed in Paris in 2011

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/articl...3390_3224.html
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Old 2nd February 2012   #15
Balkidonor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave View Post
Jack Thurston of Resonance FM Cycle show has just tweeted a link to Le Monde article stating that ZERO cyclists were killed in Paris in 2011

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/articl...3390_3224.html
also better food.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #16
Darkersidedonor
Some of the above comments feel a little gift horse/mouth. Regardless of whether your agree with all of the details, front page headlines on a proper newspaper highlighting things that can be done to help cyclists in cities is a good thing.

I agree that confident, assertive cycling mitigates the need for most of these, and that's when the 'drivers not driving like a plank' becomes the key issue on your agenda. However, you won't get the general public out of cars and onto bikes until dedicated infrastructure is their to make them feel safe in the initial wobbly months. And if the only way to fund such dedicated infrastructure is by getting company logos plastered over it then fine - I'd rather have something decent there and with RBS branding, than nothing at all because of the idealogical stance that it should be state money not private.

Gee, this is a high soapbox I've found myself on...
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Old 2nd February 2012   #17
skydancerdonor
 
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There ain't no logos on exhibition road
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ndons-roads.do

Now this is dedicated infrastructure that I buy. Not silly strips of green and blue that take bike riders out of driver's way for the drivers convenience.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #18
Brave
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balki View Post
also better food.
Bien sur.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #19
cliveodonor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skydancer View Post
Crap campaign. The language they use would put anyone off cycling. They've got the wrong end of the stick. Cycling isn't dangerous, (driving is). Why not a 'Tame our drivers" Campaign. I'd sign that one!
Skydancer, dear fellow, I think you may have the wrong end of the stick. A major and read national newspaper campaigning for cycle safety is a very positive thing. It brings the debate out into the mainstream. That is what is important.

Or is it because they critisise current cycle safety training?
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Old 2nd February 2012   #20
snowy_again
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skydancer View Post
There ain't no logos on exhibition road
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ndons-roads.do

Now this is dedicated infrastructure that I buy. Not silly strips of green and blue that take bike riders out of driver's way for the drivers convenience.
Not if you have a visual impairment.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #21
skydancerdonor
 
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No they don't criticise training. They use the language of road safety, that reinforces the myth that cycling is dangerous and it is not, (driving can be though). The basic premise is all this stuff needs to be done to 'save us'. We don't need saving. We need more people doing what we do. This stuff puts potential cyclists off.

Re visual impairment and shared space. It is an issue and has been dealt with to some extent on exhibition road. Again, by reducing road danger across the board more onus is put on the drivers to be responsible to look out for everyone whether by design as well as law
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Old 2nd February 2012   #22
snowy_again
 
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No, that's not really an answer. They put a mini rumble strip in. But 'putting the onus on drivers to be responsible' - how is that driver going to be aware of someone's visual impairment? Previous crossings enabled blind / visually impaired people to know where and when it was safe to cross. As far as I'm aware, that's been removed.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #23
snowy_again
 
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But anyway, that's a side issue. Sorry for diverting.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #24
Darkersidedonor
^^^ Disagree (and I'm wary of heading down the xkcd cartoon route here).

Cycling at certain places in Glasgow (and presumably London) is dangerous, as the road design/traffic flow is inherently hostile to something slow moving and squishy. Fully agree that if every driver was perfect, this wouldn't be an issue. I don't believe they are, and I don't believe they ever will be. I'm not.

Again, agree with you that more people cycling gives safety in numbers, increases awareness, etc, etc. Currently, unless you're prepared/able to travel at around traffic speed, assertively and be sufficiently savvy to anticipate and expect errors from other road users, I would say parts of our city road network are best avoided. If someone's campaigning to change that, they deserve all the help they can get. Whether that's through cycle training, driver training, political lobbying or plastering stuff over the front pages, it all contributes towards getting more people safely travelling by bike.

Last edited by Darkerside; 2nd February 2012 at 10:29. Reason: snowy_again clearly quicker on the keys than me
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Old 2nd February 2012   #25
skydancerdonor
 
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Just one thing regarding describing cycling as dangerous.
Dangerous means 'causing harm' (dangerous animal, dangerous criminal)
Cycling is benign and beneficial.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #26
Balkidonor
 
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its pretty good.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #27
cliveodonor
 
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Skydancer, in the paper version they do.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #28
finger_jockeydonor
 
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They need to get cycle training into primary schools again. That way even those who don't take up cycling have something of an understanding of cyclists.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #29
skydancerdonor
 
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They say cyclist and driver training must improve. I agree and think they mean improve access to, funding of and yes of course quality. (Though now many more young people undergo bikeability training than ever before in schools.)

My comments were not at all a reaction to perceived critique of my profession Cliveo, but of the missed opportunity to really say something that would make people think ' Hmm cycling is something I really ought to do' Rather than ooh sounds scary, may consider doing it when all those mirrors are fitted and cycle lanes built"
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Old 2nd February 2012   #30
Object
 
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@ Finger jockey
Define "They"?
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Old 2nd February 2012   #31
XH
 
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Just signed the campaign and retweeted it or whatever that means
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Old 2nd February 2012   #32
skydancerdonor
 
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'They' could be Local Authorites, Schools, DfT, Parents etc
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Old 2nd February 2012   #33
Sparky
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skydancer View Post
Just one thing regarding describing cycling as dangerous.
Dangerous means 'causing harm' (dangerous animal, dangerous criminal)
Cycling is benign and beneficial.
1: exposing to or involving danger <a dangerous job>

2: able or likely to inflict injury or harm <a dangerous man>

dan·ger·ous·ly adverb
dan·ger·ous·ness noun


Cycling is dangerous.

This campaign is extremely powerful and has the potential to kick the Government into action, cause a re-think on transport policy and increase spending on cycle-specific infrastructure. With a London Mayoral campaign coming up it could also push cycling to the front of candidates' minds and pledges.

Sure, it may put some people off cycling, making them fret that riding to work is a risk. They probably weren't people who were about to jump on a bike anytime soon. If the campaign ends up creating safer roads for cyclists then the net impact will have been positive.

It's the front page of The Times. You literally can't buy that publicity.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #34
Aroogahdonor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
It's the front page of The Times. You literally can't buy that publicity.
^This
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Old 2nd February 2012   #35
Darkersidedonor
What sparky said.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #36
skydancerdonor
 
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Quote:
Cycling is dangerous.
So is walking & jogging and neither as dangerous as driving which makes you fat and more likely to harm others
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Old 2nd February 2012   #37
Darkersidedonor
As a vauge aside (and without any stats to back it up), I'd imagine that the bulk of the average car driver's impression of cycling is made up of what they see out of the windscreen, rather than what they read.

Drivers seeing hordes of 'normal people' trundling past them in a dedicated cycle lane as they sit in traffic are presumably much more likely to give it a go. Much rather that impression than solitary, well trained cyclists, mixing it up with general traffic because we're too stubborn to accept any help we can get. If it requires a bit of literary exaggeration to get the former then fine - long term gain is well worth it.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #38
Sparky
 
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A few posts ago you were arguing that cycling isn't dangerous, now you agree it is. This is the problem so often with cycle campaigning: nothing's ever good enough, there's always a niggle. Nobody ever seems to agree.

Sure, I don't agree 100pc with each of the 8 points in The Times's manifesto, but on the whole this is a brilliant campaign that deserves all of our support.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #39
Eightballdonor
 
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I'm with Hans Monderman (RIP) - towns and cities need shared space initiatives put in place - the Buchanan model can't be sustained any longer
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Old 2nd February 2012   #40
skydancerdonor
 
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The word dangerous and the word safe are meaningless constructs. There are degrees of risk in everything that we do. Understanding what these are and how to minimise them is key.

Cycling in front of a lorry on an A-road or in front of a bus in a bus lane in where the drivers see you, even expect you is lower risk than riding on the segregated lane on, say cable street, where drivers pulling out of a side road may be looking out for other drivers, not cyclists cross the junction at that point
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Old 2nd February 2012   #41
mashton
 
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Being a passenger in a car is the most dangerous, non driving, form of road use.

We don't see "save our car passengers" campaigns.

I agree that the language is off, but do not think that this campaign is bad because of that, at all. I think it is brilliant.

Skydancer, it seems that now would be a great time to get out the fountain pen and the basildon bond. I suggest you begin with "Sir,... "
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Old 2nd February 2012   #42
snowy_again
 
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Green ink?
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Old 2nd February 2012   #43
mashton
 
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Crayon, perhaps.

No, not all, just respond positively with some constructive criticism and some well deserved praise.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #44
Object
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skydancer View Post
'They' could be Local Authorites, Schools, DfT, Parents etc
Or to put it another way, "Someone else".
To me it demonstrates a total lack of personal responsibility.

Last edited by Object; 2nd February 2012 at 11:10. Reason: SPRFLS capital letters.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #45
JimboJones
 
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Jeez, we have been going on for god knows how long on this forum about Lorries, cycling and the dangers and have been through countless sad deaths and injuries people and along comes a paper that does a front page splash about this and launches a campaign on that issue and still we aren't happy.

Seriously get a grip people.

This is the establishment highlighting something we care about. Cycling is mainstream now, concern for cyclists safety will be getting mainstream. Yes we have to be prepared to be disappointed that a campaign may not achieve all we want but at least an influential paper is trying to do something good.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #46
Sparky
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboJones View Post
Jeez, we have been going on for god knows how long on this forum about Lorries, cycling and the dangers and have been through countless sad deaths and injuries people and along comes a paper that does a front page splash about this and launches a campaign on that issue and still we aren't happy.

Seriously get a grip people.

This is the establishment highlighting something we care about. Cycling is mainstream now, concern for cyclists safety will be getting mainstream. Yes we have to be prepared to be disappointed that a campaign may not achieve all we want but at least an influential paper is trying to do something good.
This makes sense.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #47
Aroogahdonor
 
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+1
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Old 2nd February 2012   #48
Object
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboJones View Post
This is the establishment highlighting something we care about. Cycling is mainstream now, concern for cyclists safety will be getting mainstream. Yes we have to be prepared to be disappointed that a campaign may not achieve all we want but at least an influential paper is trying to do something good.
How dare they come in here, stealing our identities. etc.

Being serious, these are valid points. I don't agree with all of The Times manifesto just as I don't agree with the way that the LCC approach cycling safety. But to be negative about this kind of exposure is stabbing ourselves in the back.
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Old 2nd February 2012   #49
French Touchdonor
 
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+ 3 for Jimbojones. Some of the comments are ridiculous. Would you rather they said nothing?
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Old 2nd February 2012   #50
dickidonor
 
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I'm all for the Campaign but ....

BOYCOTT NEWSCORP and Murdoch enterprises
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