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Old 13th April 2012   #59801
AngelDdonor
 
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Having carefully looked at the stretch on the Dabar's, I'm pretty sure that 110mm will be about right for em, but as you say, after my last build and going through I think six stem lengths, I'm being careful!!
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Old 13th April 2012   #59802
O'Shane
 
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Oh, I have the same frame. Mine has never seen the road though. I love it too much
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Old 13th April 2012   #59803
AngelDdonor
 
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Have to admit, it's the most responsive and possibly the most fun bike I've had and I've only ridden it down my road to the shops a couple of times.

Blisteringly quick and big grins! :D
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Old 13th April 2012   #59804
AngelDdonor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Shane View Post
Oh, I have the same frame. Mine has never seen the road though. I love it too much
Whats the geo on yours dude?
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Old 13th April 2012   #59805
O'Shane
 
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No idea, I didn't realise they'd changed geo. I'll have a look into it. The frame is right in front of me so measuring is easy enough.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59806
AngelDdonor
 
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Cheers.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59807
AngelDdonor
 
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This is apparently the '07 geo, but mine is 550mm seat tube by 550mm horizontal top tube with a 175mm head tube.

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Old 13th April 2012   #59808
O'Shane
 
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Ooh, comparing the 2011 geo to the 2007 geo. A fair few changes.

How strange. My head tube is 185mm just like the 2011 model. I wonder if they measured from a different place before. It wouldn't make sense but they could have measured from the headset cups.

Is your a medium then? Mine is a large.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59809
AngelDdonor
 
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I was told it was a large I think, but its had a respray, so impossible to tell as it doesn't fit any listed measurements!

Mine seems like the bastard child of a 2007 mixed with a 2010!

Not that I'm complaining, it fits me better that way.

Last edited by AngelD; 13th April 2012 at 20:59.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59810
O'Shane
 
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It looks like a large, medium has a fair slope to the top tube.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59811
mdcc_testerdonor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal View Post
Normally you would have the leading spokes on the inside of the hub flange and the trailing spokes on the outside, as it's slightly stronger
Please explain, I'll change my habits if you have science. On rear wheels, it is traditional to have the pulling spokes inbound for crossed/interleaved builds (as pictured), because the increase in tension under power then tends to pull the interleaved crossing inboard, and away from the dérailleur. This is obviously irrelevant on track wheels.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59812
AngelDdonor
 
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Yeah, none of it looks like the listed geo though!

It's definitely 550mm c-t seat tube, 550mm c-c top tube and 175mm head tube (about 160mm if measured to inside of cups).

Looks almost traditional geo!
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Old 13th April 2012   #59813
Regaldonor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcc_tester View Post
Please explain, I'll change my habits if you have science. On rear wheels, it is traditional to have the pulling spokes inbound for crossed/interleaved builds (as pictured), because the increase in tension under power then tends to pull the interleaved crossing inboard, and away from the dérailleur. This is obviously irrelevant on track wheels.
On dished rear wheels, yup, I know you're supposed to do it the other way. But I definitely got this from somewhere reputable, probably Jobst Brandt. I'll check the book.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59814
benjy
 
benjy's Avatar
Okay, So I have potentially a stupid question...

The fixed gear and lock-ring on the rear hub, which way round should they be installed?

I originally chucked the sprocket on such that it would tighten when pedalling forward, and the lock-ring on the opposite threading, (which I understand is the correct method?)

It seems the gap between the sprocket and the spokes isn't deep enough, and I'm getting a clickety-clack when the pedals turn. If I flip the sprocket the other way (to give more room), won't this be threaded incorrectly?
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Old 13th April 2012   #59815
TMdonor
 
TM's Avatar
no, sounds like you have the sprocket on inside outey.

As is always the case with these things though, don't force anything.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59816
apollodonor
 
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that side is spokeside.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59817
mdcc_testerdonor
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjy View Post
I have potentially a stupid question.
There are no stupid questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by benjy View Post
If I flip the sprocket the other way (to give more room), won't this be threaded incorrectly?
I stand corrected
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Old 13th April 2012   #59818
benjy
 
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I did warn you!

Balls.
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Old 13th April 2012   #59819
benjy
 
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(Also, thanks all for clarifying my stupidity!)
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Old 14th April 2012   #59820
barmeybear
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal View Post
On dished rear wheels, yup, I know you're supposed to do it the other way. But I definitely got this from somewhere reputable, probably Jobst Brandt. I'll check the book.
Yeah it is dished, only one side is threaded, that makes me feel much better
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Old 14th April 2012   #59821
Regaldonor
 
Regal's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by barmeybear View Post
Yeah it is dished, only one side is threaded, that makes me feel much better
Well, dished enough to allow multiple sprockets, the point being when the trailing spokes tension under pedalling force and the leading spokes relax, the crossing point is pulled inwards (away from the derailleur) rather than outwards. It's a very slight effect though. Your wheel is fine, don't worry.
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Old 14th April 2012   #59822
Regaldonor
 
Regal's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcc_tester View Post
Please explain, I'll change my habits if you have science. On rear wheels, it is traditional to have the pulling spokes inbound for crossed/interleaved builds (as pictured), because the increase in tension under power then tends to pull the interleaved crossing inboard, and away from the dérailleur. This is obviously irrelevant on track wheels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal View Post
On dished rear wheels, yup, I know you're supposed to do it the other way. But I definitely got this from somewhere reputable, probably Jobst Brandt. I'll check the book.
So, I went and had a look through the Brandt book, but it doesn't seem to back up what I thought. It does indeed recommend that you build rear wheels with the trailing spokes on the inside, irrespective of dish.

However, the Musson book is the other way round. His method ends up with the leading spokes on the inside. And then I remembered where I got the 'stronger' thing from - before I started building wheels, I had a set built by Arup and he specifically told me that he built them so that the hub logos were readable from behind when installed in the 'correct' - stronger - orientation, which was leading spokes inside.

So I've always built front wheels and track wheels that way round.

I wonder if it might have something to do with the Brandt diagrams showing the build process from the non-drive side, when one might assume they were from the drive side.

tl;dr

#csb
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Old 14th April 2012   #59823
Aches and pains
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjy View Post
and I'm getting a clickety-clack when the pedals turny?
Maybe make sure your chain line and chain tension is okay to?
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Old 14th April 2012   #59824
mdcc_testerdonor
 
mdcc_tester's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Regal View Post
he specifically told me that he built them so that the hub logos were readable from behind when installed in the 'correct' - stronger - orientation, which was leading spokes inside.
The only hubs I've had which have a distinct 'right way round' are C-Record, which have counterbores for the spoke heads at alternate holes on the outside of the flange. That does force you to build a particular way round, and because the handedness of most rims opposes it you end up with either outbound pulling spokes or a trapped valve. Apart from the rear drive side argument enumerated above, and maybe the brake side of disc brake wheels for the same reason, there is no reason to favour one method over the other. Incidentally, dish has nothing to do with it, except that it's dish that puts the rear dérailleur cage so close to the drive side spokes in the first place.
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Old 14th April 2012   #59825
Emyrdonor
 
Emyr's Avatar
On the wheels I've built for myself recently, I've put whichever spokes would get the greatest load on the inside of the flange, so my disc front wheel is laced the other way round to my v-brake front.
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Old 14th April 2012   #59826
Regaldonor
 
Regal's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcc_tester View Post
The only hubs I've had which have a distinct 'right way round' are C-Record, which have counterbores for the spoke heads at alternate holes on the outside of the flange. That does force you to build a particular way round, and because the handedness of most rims opposes it you end up with either outbound pulling spokes or a trapped valve. Apart from the rear drive side argument enumerated above, and maybe the brake side of disc brake wheels for the same reason, there is no reason to favour one method over the other. Incidentally, dish has nothing to do with it, except that it's dish that puts the rear dérailleur cage so close to the drive side spokes in the first place.
Indeed. Interesting that that misconception had perpetuated somehow though.

I thought it might have been the disc wheel forces that convinced Musson to build that way out of habit (as he seems mostly to build MTB wheels) but in his book he reckons when he was learning, he looked at the wheels being used in the TdF and most of them were built with the pulling spokes on the outside so that's what he did. Maybe they were mostly C-Record...
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Old 14th April 2012   #59827
absurdbird
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcc_tester View Post
The only hubs I've had which have a distinct 'right way round' are C-Record, which have counterbores for the spoke heads at alternate holes on the outside of the flange. That does force you to build a particular way round, and because the handedness of most rims opposes it you end up with either outbound pulling spokes or a trapped valve. Apart from the rear drive side argument enumerated above, and maybe the brake side of disc brake wheels for the same reason, there is no reason to favour one method over the other. Incidentally, dish has nothing to do with it, except that it's dish that puts the rear dérailleur cage so close to the drive side spokes in the first place.
Aren't those counter bores to relieve stress on the bend of the spoke? -so the spoke head actually goes on the other side of the flange?
Sounds like the spoke holes on Mavic hubs
http://www.sterba-bike.cz/media/prod...avic-276-5.jpg
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Old 14th April 2012   #59828
Rieley
 
Rieley's Avatar


Few bits need adding (such as a new saddle). Fun bike and a really nice ride. This will eventually turn into my Time Trail bike for 2012.
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Old 14th April 2012   #59829
TMdonor
 
TM's Avatar
Win.

Has the rear triangle been repaired?
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Old 14th April 2012   #59830
Rieley
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malaysian View Post
Win.

Has the rear triangle been repaired?
Yeah the frame was built for a 650c rear and I toyed with selling it - but got it sorted at Mercian
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Old 14th April 2012   #59831
TMdonor
 
TM's Avatar
Ah right so they moved the brake bridge up, thought the clearances looked toight!
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Old 14th April 2012   #59832
edscobledonor
 
edscoble's Avatar
So basically you got an even higher BB!
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Old 14th April 2012   #59833
1000archangels
 
1000archangels's Avatar
just wanted to say, thats one short and tall bike.
ed you have a pm too.
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Old 14th April 2012   #59834
Eingangdonor
 
Eingang's Avatar
my dolan seta is still a current project, waiting for new parts to bring the weight under 6.6kg. i know it would be easy to go under 6, but there are parts which i won't change.
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Old 14th April 2012   #59835
edscobledonor
 
edscoble's Avatar
Like the saddle you mean?

Fair enough, very personal choice those are.
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Old 14th April 2012   #59836
mdcc_testerdonor
 
mdcc_tester's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by absurdbird View Post
Aren't those counter bores to relieve stress on the bend of the spoke?
No, they are not bell-mouth holes as you would make them to support the spoke bend, they are actual counterbores sized and shaped to accommodate the spoke head. Some pictures on the internet seem to show the large flange C-Record road hubs with counterbores on all the holes, but mine are definitely on alternate holes which, given the 1/2 spoke offset from one side to another, makes them 'handed'
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Old 14th April 2012   #59837
Teldonor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aches and pains View Post
Made a few boring changes to my Gazelle, including the crank set, bottom bracket, saddle, bar tape, straps, saddle bag, mudguard and new kicks, which actually match loads of stuff, never meant them to.



I got a ride on Sunday and it might rain, so bodged on a mudguard and got a huge saddle bag with room for a thin jacket
Tyres look good. Michelin Dynamics? Shame you changed the original crank, why was that, for lower gearing? Other than the modern saddle and the extra's it's looking pretty good. Glad you changed the hoods and tape for black, looks much better than the white I had on it.
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Old 15th April 2012   #59838
barmeybear
 
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Haha are they Adidas Gazelles?
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Old 15th April 2012   #59839
Nahguavkire
 
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Changed saddle to Ti SLR and got some nice blue Fizik Microtex. That is all.
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Old 15th April 2012   #59840
apollodonor
 
apollo's Avatar
anyone use this front DR clamp?



£5.99 at evans, otherwise any suggestions for value for money alternatives?
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Old 15th April 2012   #59841
Señor Beardonor
 
Señor Bear's Avatar
That one is fine.
Shimano, SRAM and Campag all make their own if you want to match to groupset.
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Old 15th April 2012   #59842
Aches and pains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tel View Post
Tyres look good. Michelin Dynamics? Shame you changed the original crank, why was that, for lower gearing? Other than the modern saddle and the extra's it's looking pretty good. Glad you changed the hoods and tape for black, looks much better than the white I had on it.
It's in long distance/practical mode at the moment, well long distance for me anyway

Tyres are Panaracer pasela (awesome tyres), i did change the crankset so i could get a lower gearing, glad i did as well, still got the original ones in my shed, the Rolls saddle will be going back on tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barmeybear View Post
Haha are they Adidas Gazelles?
I wish, i really wanted some, but i ended up having to settle for ones called Elridge, similar to Samba's

Last edited by Aches and pains; 15th April 2012 at 13:49.
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Old 15th April 2012   #59843
robinmarine
All pantos done and for a grand total of £6
My eyes hurt though
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Old 15th April 2012   #59844
apollodonor
 
apollo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Señor Bear View Post
That one is fine.
Shimano, SRAM and Campag all make their own if you want to match to groupset.
is it compatible with all sorts of mechs ? (ultegra triple to be precise)
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Old 15th April 2012   #59845
mdcc_testerdonor
 
mdcc_tester's Avatar
Yes, road FD hangers are universal, haven't changed in decades.
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Old 15th April 2012   #59846
C.B.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rieley View Post


Few bits need adding (such as a new saddle). Fun bike and a really nice ride. This will eventually turn into my Time Trail bike for 2012.
Seat tube angle is extra steep now too, how does this ride?
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Old 15th April 2012   #59847
negaatio
 
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my brooklyn:




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Old 15th April 2012   #59848
apollodonor
 
apollo's Avatar
liking it
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Old 15th April 2012   #59849
TMdonor
 
TM's Avatar
Sweet!

What are those bars, some fair old rise on them...
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Old 15th April 2012   #59850
negaatio
 
negaatio's Avatar
octane one from crc, 3". A bit too high for the front end. Going something like 2" when I find some nice ones.
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