London Fixed-gear and Single-speed SJS Cycles

After chatting at the Old Mill this afternoon the subject of crap cycle lanes came up so here as promised is the link to the Warrington Cycle Campaign, Facility of the month.
Crap cycle lanes

<blockquote><cite> Fixedwheelnut:</cite>crap cycle lanes</blockquote>
Pretty much all cycle lanes, no?

A list of decent cycle lanes would be much less long and much more useful.

Having said that, I tend to avoid them universally.

TfL has a load of ex-messengers and other cyclists currently performing surveys of all advertised cycle paths in London. The idea is to start by producing a conclusive map of London cycling facilities (rather than each council producing their own, or not as the case may be). After that, it's to produce a coherent and joined-up policy on cycle facilities across all London boroughs, to be directed and controlled by TfL and the London Mayor.

What we have at the moment is every council producing their own facilities in their own way. And as fixedwheelnut said at the pub, this means that Greenwich is wonderful and you go a little east and suddenly all the cycle lanes just stop.

I despise a lot of cycle lanes as they are nothing more than a painted gutter, but I do enjoy bus lanes. Cycling in London would certainly be a little tougher were we not able to take a whole (bus) lane without anyone being able to give us flak. There's a lot of places where bus lanes give you access to different routes as well, as sometimes the roads go one-way with the exception of a bus lane.

So bus lanes are cool, cycle lanes are just crap though.

bus lanes good.

buses bad.

A while back I wrote an email to Camden Council asking about a partiularly shit bit of cycle lane about 10 yards long which is designed purely to push cyclists under the wheels of left-turning trucks. I actually got a nice reply explaining that there are indeed a lot of shit cycle lanes, and they are all under review as part of a new "joined up" network of cycle lanes - there is progress.

I do find though that the "good" cycle lanes which are separated from the road are rubbish because pedestrians don't understand them and always walk into bikes, so mostly I stay on the road. The best one I know is 2 yards long and cuts across a traffic island where cyclists used to cut across the traffic island anyway - up near Kings Cross. Sensible.

I was cycling round Madrid last week, and they're funny there. People only ride for fun, on full-fat mountain bikes, in circles round the park. No commuters or couriers, and not a fixie in sight.

The Margery St. cycle lane is also fun. It's separated from the road by a stretch of kerb, so all the locals use it as a dog toilet. End-to-end turds.

i used to use a contra-flowcycle lane from chiswick to hammersmith roundabout, a kerbed off 1m wide strip of broken glass that would fill up with pedestrians because the pavement was too narrow for a high st. a waste of space.

the one down the middle of the traffic island southside of blackfriars bridge is a bit odd, you ride over peoples toes as they wait to cross. i used to use this lane when i started cycling, but there is a post in the middle which i always went to the right of, one evening i went left of the post but because of the a box for the pelican crossing button the gap is a little bit narrower resulting in clipped bars and me hitting the deck.
i stick to the road (mostly)

<blockquote><cite> velocity boy:</cite>I despise a lot of cycle lanes as they are nothing more than a painted gutter, but I do enjoy bus lanes. Cycling in London would certainly be a little tougher were we not able to take a whole (bus) lane without anyone being able to give us flak. There's a lot of places where bus lanes give you access to different routes as well, as sometimes the roads go one-way with the exception of a bus lane.
So bus lanes are cool, cycle lanes are just crap though.</blockquote>

Ealing is having some issues with these at the moment. The council was fighting Tfl over the bus lanes and has won the right to shut them down or at least alter the times they are effective.
This is harmful for cyclists. Bus lanes are good and motorists should be kept out of them. I've written a letter already but if you are in Ealing or Northolt etc. perhaps you should join the LCC for the area and campaign to keep the bus lanes as they are. It's not just about the buses!

just saw that in colliers wood and snapped it on the phone, it amused me.

not that anyone in thier right mind would follow a cycle path..

resurrecting this thread to post a few more gems....

hahahaah those are absolutely hilarious... and they are real!

yep - botton one is courtesy of the bbc

i think this is one of the best

This is a great pn in Plumbstead. The lane in the middle statrs in the middle of a road, all lanes are about 10 feet long and the one on the far right drops you on to the right hand side of the road.

I have to say this is the stupidest, taxpayers money wasted on all that work and all those signs.

what sort of cunt actually initiates this kind of mindless nonsense?

I read somewhere that sign post can cost up to 10k per post. Now Lets take 1k as the cost per post here due to size and the fact that they are close together. I count 14k.

i don't have a picture but all the cycle lanes on blackfriars bridge are crap

so with the sustrans money they'll be able to complete about 100meters of new cycle lane

a grand?? as in, that covers the cost of manufacturing as well as transporting and installing? i guess if you combine all the wages of the workers together.. but i still hope you're wrong. I'd rather have a full carbon road bike than 14 signs..

Lethal in fact.

Several 14 carbon road bikes.

Think how much free training that could provide for local cyclist.

That's from my hometown Colchester!

these are hilarious but sad in a way!

i'm trying to do some research into cycle lanes at the moment:

What is the problem with them?
Why do cyclists not seem to appreciate them?
Is it just because they aren't comprehensive enough and because they seem to finish suddenly all the time?
If they were 'complete' and wide enough would you use them or would you still prefer to use the normal part of the road?
do they need to be completely separated from the road or is it OK that they're directly adjacently (i.e. in the gutter)?

Any comments on cycle lanes would be great. Thanks.

they're in the gutter/door zone/wrong place for cycling
they don't go where you want to go
they stop and start in silly places/unexpectedly
they often make roads smaller, which is not what we want really, drivers already give us no room last thing we need is less space for them to do it in.

get rid of the ones on the road, keep the pavement ones for kids and noddys, make more pavement ones for kids and noddys.

some pavements are massive, huge. no cunt ever walks up them, but they'd make great cycle lanes for busy areas.

do you think well thought out cycle lanes could be useful or are they inherently a bad idea?

only if they use up wasted areas, like wide paths and pavements.

if there's no space on the road for them, don't try to squeeze them in.

it might sound ungrateful, but in the long run the money needs spending on educating people to share the roads we have got, not building inadequate and baffling partitions.

(I add) encouraging people to cycle needs to be "I can ride everywhere I want, because it's safe to do so"
not "I can ride to work because there's a cycle lane"

They never sweep the gutter ones so they're always filled with glass. I'd use more of them if they weren't such a tyre bursting hazard.

the main problem with cycle lanes is that it continues the 60's mentality of traffic segregation - this is a bad thing because it gives vehicle drivers a sense of ownership over roads and a lack of awareness for other modes of transport. the best thing is to avoid any sort of segregation and implement a shared surface 20mph zone over the whole area.

i'm sured we've posted about this before.

yeah we have, thanks again though. I agree that shared space is the way forward.

Some of the worst are the ones that are 18" wide on the side of the road. This encourages cyclist to hug the curb which encourages cars to overtake in none safe situations. They also give a metal line of your space / my space so car drivers end up passing closer because they think that because they are not in the bike lane the cyclist must have enough room.

The mentality behind the segregation of vunable road users for safety is the same mentality thats says the way to improve my safety when in car is to buy a bigger car. No the best way to improve your safety in a car is to improve your observation / driving skills.

Too narrow
Go nowhere
Always filled with glass
Always full of grates (narrow tyres can fall in those)
Always the least-maintained surface (rough, pitted, gulleyed, potholed, you get the picture)
Cross pavements in such a way that endangers peds

PLUS

pretty much everything mentioned above. Worst thing about cycle lanes is the drivers' assumption that cyclists should use them, and then drive as if going close to you is some kind of joke. Ha bloody ha.

SuperP what are you asking for? Are you in local Govt or transport planning or something?

That one down Pitfield Street (apart from its insane bumpiness) is handy and an example of how a cycle lane is worth the road it's painted on... It takes you places car roads don't, and whilst you're on it (apart from when you get to junctions) you're totally separated from traffic...

i dont think cycle lanes on the footpath is a good idea. they go over driveways and crosses pedestrian paths (eg the train of dismount signs ^^^^)...both are given priority which means the lane is segmented for the cyclist. and majority of those lanes are poorly constructed/cleaned/maintained (tree roots, broken pavers, potholes, etc). ok for little kids on a sunday, but not ideal for commuters. another disadvantage is that you're even further away from the adjacent driver's view

i like having the lane on the road. widen roads, move kerbs back and paint/surface cycle lane a diff colour

But I doubt it's maintained or swept and the fact that it seems to go against the flow of traffic might make it more likley that someone will pull across it without looking both ways. I'm not a fan of separated bike lanes as they usually have a physical barrier such as a kerb. That means that when a car pulls across it or a pedestrian doesn't look then you've got much less room to avoid them.

I much prefer taking my chances on the road. People are looking properly and if you go at a decent pace then you flow with the traffic.

Some new painted lines and cycle symbols at Upper Richmond Road, just beyond the Priory Lane junction......they must have cost a fortune just in the planning.

I'm with Ralph.......

Priory Lane is an excellent example of a cycle lane that is just plain lethal. Its a shared pavement jobby with no priority to cyclists at the several junctions along its path. Riding towards Richmond Park, you are only a few feet away from oncoming traffic travelling at 30-50mph. Not a great combination.
The space would have been better used had the pedestrian path been made slightly narrower and the road made slightly wider.

@ Skullhead

thanks everyone

Oh yeah, I remember now.

An absolutely horrific cycle lane. I've had a couple of punctures and a fall using this before. It's much safer on the road despite the numerous times I've been told to get in the cycle lane by motorists (both verbally and by judicious use of their horns).

a man goes into a pub and says to the landlord:
"there is a fantastic network across london for cyclists to use; it's called the road, the only problems with it are the way some people use it.
most cycle lanes are there for the convenience of the drivers and are more often a danger to riders.
make residential roads no faster than a cyclist.
scrap lights.
scrap badly driven cars.
more underground car parks to get the things off the road.
and pay people to cycle (in the long run it will cost us less)!"

landlord replies:
"alright mate, calm down. there are green routes that seem to encourage leisure cycling, maybe getting families to ride at weekends will be a big factor in changing trends - a bit like that program on tv last night ('the woman who stops traffic')."

man decides he'd rather drink beer elsewhere and leaves pub.

+1 to all the above.

See Queenstown road, up by Chelsea Bridge for details. Cycle path goes through a bus-stop - between the bus & shelter. Idiotic.

AMEN to that.

yeah, that's a real killer. I've come to the conclusion that cars actually have a use and it's to crush any glass that gets on to the road.

anyway, it (glass, too narrow, bad surfacing, parked cars, people stepping out etc) all boils down the fact that you can't travel safely at the speed you would like to - on the road, I and I suspect most people here get around at 20mph+, which just feels insanely reckless in most of the cycles lanes we have.

too narrow, don't usually go anywhere or the road isn't made any wider to accomodate.

The worst is the one that goes from bermondsey street to tooley street.. Big fucking concrete bollards right in the middle.

The one on the promenade des anglais in Nice is fantastic.

Also the st-tropez-sainte maxime was great. completely segregated and really smooth.

A lot of the roads down there are just beautiful.

I think it's the weather. if London just had hotter weather, a proper summer...then everything would be fine. We wouldn't even care if we had bike lanes or not.

old people dying in the heat..

gridlock traffic and frayed tempers causing road rage incidents..

public transport unable to cope with the hot conditions..

riots..

violence..

murder..

England.

Cycle lanes are damn right dangerous!

Full of hazards
They give no room to manoeuvre
and if you try and use the road instead
motorists feel they have to right harass you
sad but true
some people think it funny to 'pretend'
to hit you sitting behind the wheel of two tons of steel

and still we ride, Buddhski..

And still we ride.

I bitch and moan but would I take the metro

hell, no ..!!!