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VO2 Max testing
 
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Old 31st January 2013   #51
_dan_
 
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So would taking an average of my fastest (solo) efforts give me a benchmark for vo2 max? Say. Top five?
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Old 31st January 2013   #52
skinny
No because it would be related to you current 5 minute maximal power, which would be less than your maximum VO2.

Also from inrng http://inrng.com/2012/09/junior-worl...ion-prospects/
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Old 31st January 2013   #53
BringMeMyFix
 
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Close though. You could always time efforts from the top of the rise on the eastern side until you get to the mosque lights, to make it more like a 4min effort. Either way, if you want to eke out a bit more VO2Max (it's not very trainable anyway), people generally go for intervals between 3min and 5min in length, intensity adjusted accordingly, roughly 4 intervals with similar length recovery.

Some people mix it up, some thrive on pushing it up with the shorter/more intense 3min stuff, some prefer to pull it up with the slightly more drawn out/less aaaargh 5min stuff. You won't really know which camp you belong to until you've a) seen progress and/or b) lost motivation to do the fucking things.
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Old 31st January 2013   #54
BringMeMyFix
 
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I know (or have written down) the stats for mine, but I couldn't really care less. If I started banging out 4min HCs in 3m30, I knew my VO2Max had probably been nudged a little, amongst other things like lactate tolerance, neuromuscular endurance, pacing strategy, mental attitude, blah blah blah.
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Old 31st January 2013   #55
Dammit
 
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Originally Posted by _dan_ View Post
Yeah I thought as much.

I think I'd rather put the 150 towards eventually buying a power device. Or a coach.

It's annoying that pretty much all self coach manuals or programmes seem to take owning a 2000 measuring device as a given. Have been trying to negotiate planning and training for this season but finding it quite frustrating.
Still not cheap by any means, but:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Compact-SR...item417053b35e
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Old 31st January 2013   #56
_dan_
 
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Originally Posted by skinny View Post
Not much point. Without power there's no really way of calculating it. And beyond satisfying curiosity it's worthless.

Better off setting HR levels through an all out hour TT. Or by using old data to gauge it. This will allow you to set rough levels to teain in. But if you ride a lot and can guard perceived effort well, this is more valid than HR as of the lag in HR.


If you're really interested for fun, cadence in CP do it fully for 150.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringMeMyFix View Post
Close though. You could always time efforts from the top of the rise on the eastern side until you get to the mosque lights, to make it more like a 4min effort. Either way, if you want to eke out a bit more VO2Max (it's not very trainable anyway), people generally go for intervals between 3min and 5min in length, intensity adjusted accordingly, roughly 4 intervals with similar length recovery.

Some people mix it up, some thrive on pushing it up with the shorter/more intense 3min stuff, some prefer to pull it up with the slightly more drawn out/less aaaargh 5min stuff. You won't really know which camp you belong to until you've a) seen progress and/or b) lost motivation to do the fucking things.
Thanks, as always you give the best / simple / breakdown of something which is confusing me. Have some rep - I'm going to owe you another bottle of whisky soon :)

I need to stop overthinking things as usual.

Neil, thanks for the link - still the cost of a bike! Or more than a pair of good race wheels for my track bike! The trouble with powermeter stuff is that I know I'll just end up wanting them on all my bikes - which would be crazy investment of money for some data.
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Old 31st January 2013   #57
_dan_
 
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Um I think my stupid phone may have conspired to deduct rep rather than give it :/ tits..
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Old 31st January 2013   #58
hippy
 
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That wired SRM is adding needless weight to my now-unused Kinesis...
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Old 31st January 2013   #59
_dan_
 
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Have you already killed the kinesis?

Wanna give/lend me the srm? I can pay in reacharounds and beer? :)
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Old 31st January 2013   #60
skinny
As I've said to neil, since getting it. The SRM is the best thing I've ever bought.
Personally it's amazing for me to train with, but I love numbers and stricture

However, you can train without one fine. It's just different.

BMMF the rider in question, from the picture post is at 68kg. So map is low for a pro, but it's not a pro.
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Old 31st January 2013   #61
hippy
 
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Originally Posted by _dan_ View Post
Have you already killed the kinesis?
Wanna give/lend me the srm? I can pay in reacharounds and beer? :)
No, I screwed my back up.

It's yours... for about 500 worth of beer. Reacharounds are optional.
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Old 1st February 2013   #62
_dan_
 
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Hm not right now, but maybe soon.
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Old 1st February 2013   #63
BringMeMyFix
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinny View Post
As I've said to neil, since getting it. The SRM is the best thing I've ever bought.
Personally it's amazing for me to train with, but I love numbers and stricture

However, you can train without one fine. It's just different.

BMMF the rider in question, from the picture post is at 68kg. So map is low for a pro, but it's not a pro.
I still don't think it's low, especially in an undoped context. Plus they can probably hold a higher percentage of their MAP for much longer than most, so either way, they're a genetic monster.
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Old 1st February 2013   #64
skinny
Can't disagree with the genetic monster VO2.

Maybe I need to re-evaluate my perspective of low, against that I compared the MAP result.
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Old 1st February 2013   #65
BringMeMyFix
 
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Check out Coggan's power profiles. Again, assuming an FTP that's around 85% of MAP, this would give the athlete in question around 5.75W/kg, which is still in the 'worldclass pro' bracket. It's probably not unreasonable to lower all Coggan's figures by 5% for (95% of) pros in the era during which he gathered his data, which would put the king of the castle value at 6.08W/kg, and move 5.75W/kg squarely into the pro (upper) mid-table.
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Old 1st February 2013   #66
James R
I'm still waiting to get on the Olympic research rig at UCLH (work in the research office) more out of interest of what my V02 max is and if there's much point in trying to train/race to a higher level. (currently racign 4hour mtb enduro's)

In the mean time, where would you put the upper heart rate as a cut of, I get Vmax is 240 minus age, but I know I can go above this, is it better to slow down at a certina point or let your body decide to slow you down?
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Old 1st February 2013   #67
hippy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringMeMyFix View Post
Check out Coggan's power profiles. Again, assuming an FTP that's around 85% of MAP, this would give the athlete in question around 5.75W/kg, which is still in the 'worldclass pro' bracket. It's probably not unreasonable to lower all Coggan's figures by 5% for (95% of) pros in the era during which he gathered his data, which would put the king of the castle value at 6.08W/kg, and move 5.75W/kg squarely into the pro (upper) mid-table.
Except the subject of the test above was a Californian Sea Otter

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Old 1st February 2013   #68
BringMeMyFix
 
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^he's off his tits on EPOtter.
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Old 1st February 2013   #69
adoubletap
 
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The 220 - age formula is a really crap predictor, gives you at least +/-10 bpm error and in my case 13 bpm too low.
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Old 1st February 2013   #70
_dan_
 
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yeah - it's wrong for me too.
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Old 1st February 2013   #71
chisa
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adoubletap View Post
Someone on Garmin threw down a 95 which appears to be the 4th highest reading ever recorded.

Vaughters tweeted a pic but won't say who.

it is some 18 year old stagiere
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Old 3rd February 2013   #72
Dammit
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adoubletap View Post
The 220 - age formula is a really crap predictor, gives you at least +/-10 bpm error and in my case 13 bpm too low.
According to that formula my maximum heart rate would be 184.

From today, three laps of RP:

Peak 5 second 211 BPM
Peak 10 second 209 BPM
Peak 20 second 201 BPM
Peak 30 second 192 BPM
Peak 60 second 185 BPM
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Old 3rd February 2013   #73
skinny
I don't believe that.
Not calling you a liar.
But 211 is insane, if true.
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Old 3rd February 2013   #74
Dammit
 
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It might be an equipment issue. Let me check the files.
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Old 3rd February 2013   #75
skinny
The highest i've seen was a little chap from my team at 206 or so. And that was high.

You're about my size, so heart should be bigger, so will beat less than a little guy.
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Old 3rd February 2013   #76
Dammit
 
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I might have been having a heart attack- I'm very old, so that is a possibility.
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Old 3rd February 2013   #77
Dammit
 
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If you set smoothing to 1% then it takes out the 200+ result, maximum it gets to is 199 here:



There's a consistent ramp, rather than a sudden spike which would lead me to think it was hooky- what do you think?

EDIT, here's the 211 but, you're right, there is a sudden jump which does look a bit odd:


Last edited by Dammit; 3rd February 2013 at 21:23.
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Old 3rd February 2013   #78
skinny
Hard to tell from the picture. But under instinct I'd say it was off, as it is an unusually high rate. Not something I think you could achieve in RP.

199 is viable, but you'd know you were there. My max is just shy of 200 and if i'm over 190 i know about it. I did an all out 5min effort the other day, full gas and only got to 192bpm. So 5 shy of my highest ever value.
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Old 3rd February 2013   #79
T-V
This thread is very funny. What possible need could joe average have for knowing their VO2 Max?
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Old 3rd February 2013   #80
Dammit
 
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Bit of chit-chat to break the ice at parties?
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Old 3rd February 2013   #81
T-V
Chatting about cycling at parties is what isolates us from normal people.
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Old 3rd February 2013   #82
dancing james
 
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There is one worse social pariah at a party, the triathlete.
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Old 3rd February 2013   #83
Dammit
 
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That reminds me, where is TW2 these days?
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Old 3rd February 2013   #84
dancing james
 
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Boring the fuck out of people at drinks parties.
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Old 4th February 2013   #85
_dan_
 
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lol.

211 is crazy. I'm 28 and the most i've ever produced is 196. I was reading this article about Andy Murray's fitness last month (don't ask why - I hate tennis) and it talks of him reaching his peak and acheiving a 200bpm MRH like it's a pretty big deal:
Quote:
Green, who works alongside Matt Little, looks at Murray as not just a friend and fine player, but a maturing tennis machine the team have to ensure reaches maximum efficiency at the right time.

"Andy is moving towards his physiological peak from 25 to 28," Green says. "He achieved a 200 beat-per-minute maximum heart rate. His maximum minute ventilation is indicative of a highly trained athlete and has increased since last year's test. His oxygen pulse, which is an indication of how much blood and oxygen he can consume for every beat of his heart, is still extremely high.

"The fact that Andy has now put more emphasis on strength and power in his training and still has such a high VO2 max (peak oxygen uptake) is unique. Not many people can improve so much on strength, put on a few pounds of predominantly muscle and still maintain such a high VO2.
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Old 4th February 2013   #86
BringMeMyFix
 
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I hit well over 220 as a teenager being tested on squat thrusts to exhaustion, and did a ramp test in my late 20s where I was at 192 at the end of the 'warm-up'. Some people are high-beaters, though this doesn't mean you can't achieve a low resting rate (I've recorded 39 - not mind-blowing, but I was definitely aerobically fit at the time).

I can't tell you how much pussy I've got discussing this shit at parties.
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Old 4th February 2013   #87
_dan_
 
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Squat thrusts to exhaustion as a teenager - sounds more like a therapist conversation than a pick up line!



hm, must try harder. I can get my HR down to 43, which I was quite pleased with. All relative I suppose
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Old 4th February 2013   #88
Dammit
 
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**Starts filling bath with ice, puts on HR strap**
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Old 4th February 2013   #89
dstdonor
 
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Just had a look at some 2009 data (27 and fit enough to run a 19:25 5k). I hit 217 but I will put it down to an outlier. I hit 205 on a number of occasions. One run my max was 201 and I averaged 190 over 30 mins. I must have been killing myself.
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Old 4th February 2013   #90
Dramatic Hammerdonor
Quote:
Originally Posted by _dan_ View Post
Squat thrusts to exhaustion as a teenager - sounds more like a therapist conversation than a pick up line!



hm, must try harder. I can get my HR down to 43, which I was quite pleased with. All relative I suppose
Purple Aki?
Akinwale_Arobieke
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Old 4th February 2013   #91
pauldmorgan
As a runner I always relied on the macmillan running calculator and training by heart rate for planning my interval sessions. Is there a bike equivalent resource that allows you to do this? (e.g. with the Macmillan calculator you can work out your Marathon training paces for intervals, VO2 max, threshold sessions etc from your flat out 5k time). I can't afford a power meter but have an HRM and want to get a bit more scientific....
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Old 4th February 2013   #93
hippy
 
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Originally Posted by chisa View Post
it is some 18 year old stagiere
Then he's still got to go through the booze, hookers, coke and pills stage that prevents 99% of us reaching the Tour podium.
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Old 4th February 2013   #94
hippy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dammit View Post
According to that formula my maximum heart rate would be 184.

From today, three laps of RP:

Peak 5 second 211 BPM
Peak 10 second 209 BPM
Peak 20 second 201 BPM
Peak 30 second 192 BPM
Peak 60 second 185 BPM
Is this what your coach is having you do?
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Old 4th February 2013   #95
hippy
 
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Originally Posted by T-V View Post
This thread is very funny. What possible need could joe average have for knowing their VO2 Max?
If anyone ever tells you their VO2max it then becomes your job to smash them into the Earth when you next race, laughing at their 'values' all the way home.
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Old 4th February 2013   #96
hippy
 
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Originally Posted by dancing james View Post
Boring the fuck out of people at drinks parties.
Triathletes don't drink. They've got like a brick session at 4am tomorrow man and my recovery will like be hampered from today's run man.
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Old 4th February 2013   #97
Dammit
 
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Originally Posted by hippy View Post
Is this what your coach is having you do?
Nope- I just noticed the values after I'd been for a ride an thought they were interesting.

It was meant to be 3 hours of L2, but I was feeling quite cross at the time.
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Old 4th February 2013   #98
hippy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringMeMyFix View Post
I hit well over 220 as a teenager being tested on squat thrusts to exhaustion, and did a ramp test in my late 20s where I was at 192 at the end of the 'warm-up'. Some people are high-beaters, though this doesn't mean you can't achieve a low resting rate (I've recorded 39 - not mind-blowing, but I was definitely aerobically fit at the time).

I can't tell you how much pussy I've got discussing this shit at parties.
I measured 340BPM whilst breaking the Australian Sheep Shearing record in 1992. I've since recorded 829BPM whilst ordering coffee at a Costa in the City.

My resting heartrate is 0.4BPM though that was taken during the 7th of 10 Ironman events in last year's Deca so I'm not sure it's 100% resting.
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Old 4th February 2013   #99
hippy
 
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Originally Posted by _dan_ View Post
hm, must try harder. I can get my HR down to 43, which I was quite pleased with. All relative I suppose
HR is irrelevant unless you have a heart condition and maybe need to chillax (official medical term). It's all about how much power you can make for how long minus what's slowing you down (air, rolling resistance, etc).
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Old 4th February 2013   #100
hippy
 
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Runners >>>
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