London Fixed-gear and Single-speed SJS Cycles

So I've decided to scrap my european tour plans, and decided to tour in india instead.

We'll be going in the first three weeks of december, travelling light, staying in hostels. So far that's all we've decided.

Any advice or experience?

touring supposed to be fantastic,
its a country that makes do, so if you need repairs they often can bodge stuff.
the common bikes are these ancient old british machines, you can get parts, also take easily replaced shimano stuff (they might not have too many phil wood spares)
theres lots of folks (read nutty europeans) do massive journeys there, and get welcomed by locals. you have to beware all the usual stuff r.e health and so on, but by all accounts and from being there once you will have an epic time,
next time I go its gonna be for a year at least.

be prepared for plenty of attention wherever you go, especially in the more rural areas. disregard all notions of personal space you may have. look into getting trains to the areas you want to see and then doing rides in those areas rather than full on touring all the time - taking bikes on trains and buses is easy enough. loads of good info on crazyguyonabike & ctc.

I spent a year bumming around India with the missus. You're guaranteed to have an adventure, so just go. There'll be a gazillion people in your face all the time, but they're generally friendly and curious rather than threatening. There will be people trying to relieve you of your rupees in one way or another pretty much all the time, but so long as you keep a sense of humour it's not a problem. Don't know about cycling, but can tell you the main roads are mental - basically if it's bigger than you it has right of way - that's just the way it is. The minor roads will be in shit condition, so make sure you've got fat tyres that can take a punishing. Drink bottled water - I don't think I had a firm dump all the time I was there, but some forms of the squits are worse than others. Eat local food - it's better (and safer) than the "tourist" crap. Have fun... I can safely say it was the best year of my life (so far).

I'd really recommend touring around the Western Ghats/Kerala - should be decent temperature + dry at that time. I backpacked round that way a few years ago and was always wishing I had a bike with me. There's a good journal on CGOAB that I was looking at recently, he did a lot of routes I'd have liked to have done. As long as you don't mind hills then the Western Ghats would be amazing.

Have you been to India before? It'll be quite a lot to adjust to on top of the cycling if not... but it's an amazing place. Much, much nicer the further you get from tourist areas.

From personal experience I can also reccommend Sikkim for cycle touring - light traffic and very friendly people, but weather would probably rule that out in December.

Also I wouldn't say taking bikes on trains is always easy enough... It's entirely possible, but can be a bit stressful. However Indian trains are great.

As long as you can find a tailor to sew up your bike in calico and sack cloth you will be fine! Certainly easier than getting a bike on Virgin trains from London to Manchester at rush hour...

Obvious but check the weather where you are going, I just got back and some places were really cold (Delhi, Kasauli) while others were really hot. It is madness so I'm sure you will enjoy it.

Even with mine still boxed from the flight and with plenty of previous experience of Indian trains it proved to be a bit of a nightmare in Kolkata. Forms filled in triplicate, various staff struggling not to be the one to have to deal with checking the forms, stress over whether to declare the bike's value or not & then being unsure as to whether my bike would still be there & in one piece in Siliguri.
I suspect it would be less difficult leaving from smaller stations.

Having said that, it's still much easier than most UK trains...

Thanks for all the info guys. I've got a lot of research to do.

It will be my first time in india, but I'm very quick to adjust and cycling is instictive. I dare say I'd feel more at home on my bike than on foot. My friend I'm touring with has been to india 3 or 4 times.

I knocked this up quickly on bikely. Obviously, there's no research gone into this and my time of year is totally wrong (I guess). But how amazing would the landscape be? Check out the elevation profile!

Anyway I do quite fancy Chandigarh as the final destination of the tour, with the rest of the milage as rural as possible with villages/towns at 60ish mile intervals.

Any advice on good information sources for planning the route, including recomended maps?

By the way I absoultely hate taking my bike on trains, even in this country. So I'll be avoiding it wherever possible.

I may even ride out from the airport if it's feasible.

The north-western part of your map (i.e. Hardwar, Simla etc.) runs a high risk of being wet and cold in early December.
If I was going to fly all that way I'd head for the sun down in the south - Tamil Nadu, Kerala, the Western Ghats as ad441 mentioned.
That northern region is one of the poorest and most politically dubious areas in India, and could be quite harsh on the senses. And the food in the south is amazing.
But take spares with you wherever you go, particularly stuff that is metric.

Thought as much about the weather. I was lured by the hills and Le Corbusier....

Too early to make decisions now, but all the advice is very helpful.

Personally I'd say that anything involving rural Bihar is maybe not going to be the best choice of cycling routes...
(though like anywhere, someone's no doubt done it and it was actually fine).

CGOAB's really good for journals.
If you are keen on ridiculous elevation profiles then you should get hold of a copy of 'Himalaya by bike' by Laura Stone which I based a lot of my Sikkim route on - sample page -

Only problem is I'm not sure how many of her routes would be any good in December.

Personally I reckon in December I'd really think about the Western Ghats - there are still some pretty amazing views

Though obviously not to the extent that you'll get in the Himalayas.

I've probably made it sound worse than it is on the trains - honestly it's better than doing it in this country & Indian trains are great.

Riding out of most Indian airports is probably not going to be that wise - most flights tend to arrive in the middle of the night + airport locations are rarely that convenient.
Far better to give yourself a day or so to get over the jetlag and re-assemble your bike somewhere quiet.

Never that comfortable with putting my life up on the internet... but in case it's helpful in any sort of way, this was my journal/blog type thing I wrote while I was out there.

like jason says make sure you don't have too specialist equipment on your bike, even campag is pretty impossible to get hold of. components where you can change bearings etc too are preferable...

That book looks amazing, I'll have to hunt down a copy.

Just reading your blog now.

Less usefully I should also mention that the Himalayan bits of India have the best road signs ever.

Chandigarh is a really nice city, quite European in appearance built on a grid system which is very strange for India. We visited there on the way to kasauli as a freinds family is from there. From what I saw there wasn't a massive amount to see or do there to be honest, but the hills outside it are definitely worth seeing.

Edit: best sign I saw was on the road to agra, one of the English beer and wine shops had a sign saying 'discount for drivers'. We took advantage.

Hey.
I went to India at the beginning of January last year and planned on touring the whole lot... up down around... I was told by friends that I should forget the idea of bringing a bike and just go. But I'm stubborn and I did it anyways. I flew into Delhi and it was pretty darn cold and foggy. (Amazingly I left 6 months later, it was 45 degrees celcius. couldn't sleep at night it was so hot). I took a train from Delhi to Goa and then took about 3 and a half weeks and cycled from Goa to Gokarna in Karnataka before realizing that I valued my life more than time spent cycling. Maybe it's because I was a single girl cyclist, maybe it's because of all of the large trucks (remember "might is right" in India), maybe it's because of all the dead-tourist-on-motor-bike shrines or maybe it's because of all the MISSING french cyclist signs posted all over the south, but I decided to pack it in. Yes it was beautiful while it lasted. The locals thought I was nuts and I met loads of lovely people and got invited and attended a few interesting family dinners where I was poked and prodded and educated and had a blast.
I guess if you're going with a group you're safer in numbers, but don't expect it to be an easy ride. There will be sacred cows and motorbikes, trucks, camels, cyclists, carts, cars, buses, you name it, they won't think twice about you so you need to be aware and get ready to swerve into sandy shoulders in a split second. I was nearly left for dead when a car overtook a bullock cart and swerved out and played chicken with me.
If stubborn you're like me, you'll still go. But keep in mind you won't see much... India looks small on a map, but the distances are great and the roads terrible. there are no seriously good road maps. Go to Stanfords on Long Acre. The one I used was called Eicher I think. It's the best there is. If you only have 3 weeks you won't have enough time to do what you have planned much less see anything. If you're going to pay £300min to fly there you might as well enjoy it. I suggest doing India's golden triangle of Delhi, Jaipur and Agra... No need to take any trains (which by the way are the best form of transportation in India... love it!) and I think it's about 200miles in between each place. Remember it will be cold and foggy in the mornings and there won't be loads of places to stay in between these places.
I rode my bob jackson there and here's what I learned:1-make sure you have all your bits sorted you don't want to be missing a seatpost bolt like I was and getting a dodgy replacement from a tuktuk driver,2-Get schraeder valve tubes or an adapter. That's all they have in India.3-don't expect to find any shimano, phil woods blahblah... This is India, they're still riding around on single speed Hercules bikes... Most Indians have never seen a derailer in their lives (unless you're in the north in sikkim, Dharamsala or Nepal)
If you just fancy cycle touring then I'd suggest Morocco or else romania or turkey. I have friends who were just touring there and they loved it!
Anyways Max is telling me to cut it. Sorry for the rant, goodluck and enjoy

Julia

Thanks Julia, there's a gold mine of information in that post. That 'missing' sign would have scared me to.

I am still set on india though. The western ghats looks like a winner.

In the photo you've got two rear panniers, is that all you travelled with? How did you find it? I'd be looking to take a similar amount of stuff with me.

I found that journal on cgoab of a guy doing the kind of route I'd have liked to have done round the South - http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=RrzKj&doc_id=5774&v=EJ

It's a shame that you had such a bad time with traffic. I think it's very important to pick an area with quieter roads - which once you're into the hills in the Western Ghats would be the case. But even on the busier roads I honestly didn't find it that bad - at least there isn't the aggression you get in London - obviously you have to get out of the way of anything bigger than you (e.g. just about everything), but at least no one hates cyclists in the same way they do here.
(though of course people will be completely bewildered as to why anyone would want to cycle if they could afford not to).

I read about the French cyclist who went missing - I may not have remembered the exact details, but I have a feeling he set out straight from Mumbai on his own and was camping - which I reckon isn't the wisest option.

I definitely wouldn't do the Golden triangle - I think that'd be pretty grim - heavy traffic + if you've not been to India before the south is far easier to start with.

You're right about the golden triangle but if he want's to see any sites then it's the best bet for his money and time. No offence ad441 but it's not the same as backpacking around. And even if you were backpacking then you must have noticed the traffic. India has over a billion people in it. He won't go more than 2 minutes on the coast without namasteing a local or being passed by a vehicle. There aren't too many "quiet roads" in India. If there's 3 of you then I think you'll have a better go of it. The western ghats are beautiful. If I were you I'd fly into Trivandrum in Kerala and just putter around the backwaters. Go to Varkala which is a 45 min train journey up from trivandrum... Talk to Buffalo BIll about it. We hung out there for 2 weeks and I went back at the end of my trip for another 2 and a half during the monsoon. Had such an awesome time there.
Yes I only travelled with 2 rear paniers... for 3 weeks I'd use less. I just bathed in the ocean with my clothes on (because I'm a woman) to clean them off. If you're wearing cycle shorts obviously give them a bit more care, you don't want to be getting any nasty rashes which in the heat can happen very easily. I found it perfect. I had everything in those 2 paniers I had with me for 6 months. Tell your lady friend to wear long tshirts and at least to the knee shorts. She might not want the attention and it's just respectful to the culture. You guys could get away with being naked if you wanted.
This is the map I used:
http://maps.eicherworld.com/about.as...oplink=&mid=42
Enjoy!
Julia

Thanks Guys. Sites and cities really aren't what I'm looking for. I want to be as deep in the mountains as possible for most of the journey.

I've put this together quickly as a starting point for my general direction, I'll spend a considerable amount of time adjusting it to find the quietest roads. etc. I'll probably move the starting point a little further south and maybe finish in Kerala to. The plan is to do 50 miles a day, 5 days of the week for three weeks. So about 750 miles all in.

Mostly I'm excited about the hills:



I'd be heading north to south on the assumption it'll get warmer as I travel and I'll acclimatize better that way.

Cheers for the road atlas link, I'll have a look around for a copy. Any other recommended literature?

My friend was planning on buying his bike in India, any thoughts or advice on this?

Thanks.

No, I never said it was - but I have done quite a bit of cycling in India and spent a lot of time (without a bicycle) in quieter parts of the the Western Ghats and I can promise that there are plenty of nice, quiet roads. As a rather poor analogy, it's a bit like cycling to Brighton - you can go straight down the A23 or you can take the backroads and barely see any traffic (though of course there's far more opportunity for getting lost this way).

Actually for a more accurate analogy there'd have to be no accurate maps of these backroads, anyone you ask for directions would give wildly contrasting information & the surface of the backroads would be incredibly variable in quality, but they'll be there.

There'll also be plenty of horribly busy roads as well & sometimes there's no alternative, but one advantage of getting into the hills is everyone has to go a bit slower.
Any of the main coast roads will be pretty horrendous, but I'd really suggest only dropping down to the coast for a bit of relaxation at the start/end.

Your other advice regarding panniers, clothing, etc is spot on.

Julia - Where did you get your copy of the eicherworld road atlas from?

I think if you're willing to adjust it a lot as you go along that's a good starting point, though if you're really into climbing hills I'd think about a route that involves going Madurai>Kodaikanal and then from there over to Munnar on a road that's meant to be 4wd only. I think that cgoab journal I posted up involves that route. Though roads on the plains of Tamil Nadu will be pretty busy and not that fun.

One place I really liked in the hills was Marayoor - it'd be a very pleasant cycle from Munnar (which I didn't like so much).

The further North part of your tour isn't an area I know much about, but Wayanad is nice (and will have some quieter routes). You could maybe think about finishing around Kannur in Northern Kerala, spending a few days relaxing there (I can PM you a suggestion for somewhere very nice), then catching a train back along the coast from there.

I definitely wouldn't set too rigid a schedule for distances. Some days 50 miles + will be fine, other days it won't. At least one of you will get ill at some point and that'll take a few days out of your schedule.

I wouldn't count on much temperature difference between north and south - elevation will be far more significant.

Don't... not if you're doing any hill climbing - you're very unlikely to get gears and it'll weigh tons. In the bigger cities you can get tolerable mountain bikes, but I still wouldn't think about touring on them.

I do know of people that have toured on Indian bikes - in their favour they're sturdy & incredibly easy to get repaired, but it'll be slow and not very comfortable. Particularly if one of you is on a higher quality bike I think it could be pretty frustrating.

One thing I was going to say - however tough/ridiculous your cycle route ends up being, you'll always meet someone (usually German) doing something 10 times as hard. In Sikkim I met a guy who'd just cycled to India via Pakistan and Iran (apparently Pakistan's horrible for cycling, Iran is great). In Darjeeling I met a German woman who was about to cycle solo through Bangladesh in the hot season. I also heard stories of a Japanese guy who'd cycled Sikkim on an Indian bike, though apparently he spent 90% of his time pushing it. Anyway, I was always reassured that nothing I did could be as bad as any of those.

As for reading, I don't know of any specific cycling books about the South, but V.S. Naipaul, Paul Theroux and Alexander Frater are all well worth reading.

ad441 (Adrian?) - I've just been reading Himalaya by Bike this morning, excellent. Obviously little use for the Western Ghats but awesome book nonetheless. I can feel a Himalayan trip coming up for 2011. Like you said in your earlier post, I think I'd be better off experiencing south india before the adventure of himalayan india. The Sikkim route looks amazing, did you deviate much from this?

Yes, that book's pretty inspiring - I'd love to do the Manali-Leh highway one day.

To start with I did the route in the book and then I added on detours and extensions later on, mostly based on talking to locals - one very good, semi-offroad one to Rinchinpong, an extra loop up through the middle of Sikkim and a detour round Kalimpong at the end. I said I'd write some stuff about them for the book's website, though I've failed to get round to it yet (I'm not sure if she got round to doing the website either). On the other hand I failed to cycle in the far North of Sikkim, which I still feel bad about - The price of permits to do it solo was too high + the very variable weather conditions might have stopped it being much fun. I know a lot of tourist jeeps got stranded up there shortly after I went due to roads collapsing - they get a lot of landslides.

Sikkim's really interesting - it's as much Nepalese and Tibetan as it is Indian and doesn't have a lot of the difficulties you get cycling in the rest of India - aside from the main road upto Gangtok, traffic's really light.

But South Indian food is much better - not that it's bad in the North, just that Southern food is amazing. Don't know if you're bothered about wildlife, but you'll probably see a lot more in the Western Ghats. Spent a while in Parambikulam widlife reserve when I was there and saw a lot of exciting things (malabar giant squirrels, sloth bears, etc). Actually I was going to say that you've got a slight danger of encountering elephants on some of those roads through the hills, which isn't necessarily a good thing... I've never read an account of fleeing from an elephant by bike, but it's not something I'd want to do.

I got my map at Stanfords on Long Acre in Covent Garden. they're usually pretty helpful there. Sorry ad441.. must have misread your post earlier. Ditto on the manali-leh highway although altitude sickness would be a huge issue I think. STE5 I think your man ad441 is right about madurai to kodai kanal and munnar... it's beautiful...And it's hot. I wouldn't set too many big days up for yourself. Just see how it goes. If you run out of time take the train. It's a great experience. I would just take my front wheel off and stick it under the seats. If the conductor comes round then play stupid tourist. By the way why can't you people use real names.. I feel a bit stupid calling you ad441 and STE5...Oh and remember everything is negotiable in India. There is no such thing as "no". But they'll probably ask for more ruppees.
Julia

P.S I MISS IDLY. It's a steamed fermented rice cake that you have for breakfast with coconut chutney and sambar... YUM!

Haha, I've always regretted not using my actual name on here. It's Sean btw.

I'm quite excited about seeing wildlife, but elephants?....


Apparently there's less chance of being killed if you hold your ground and shout at the elephant.... not very reassuring.

No problem, yes - isn't there a really scary bit in the middle of the manali-leh route where you go into a valley but you're still at 4000 metres + at the lowest so if you get sick you're stranded? Defintiely not a ride I'd want to do solo.
In Sikkim I found 2000 metres was about the altitude where I started to notice it, though it affected me more off the bike than on it - while riding it just seemed like regular tiredness. But then I don't think I really cycled over 3000 metres at all and the leh road is all above that.

I totally agree about not setting yourself any big targets for distance or anything - I tried to look on cycling there as the most pleasant way to travel and see stuff most tourists don't get to, rather than as some sort of endurance challenge.

I love idly, It seems very hard to find good ones here - I think Ragam in Cleveland Street is probably the best I've had. I had a go at making coconut chutney the other day, didn't come out quite right.

Adrian

I'm a little dubious about that... but probably depends on the elephant. I was walking in Parambikulam with the park's naturalist + one other guy and an elephant appeared out of the trees about 10 metres away. You wouldn't think an elephant could just appear without making a noise, but they can. I was going for my camera when I realised the naturalist looked absolutely terrified - he whispered to walk away slowly, which we did and luckily it didn't pursue us. Apparently it was a young male and was flapping his ears in an aggressive manner... afterwards I asked what we could have done if it had gone after us and it seemed the best we could have hoped for was not all of us would have been killed if we'd separated.

angry mother elephant (was in a vehicle this time)


They're beautiful animals, though they're not doing too well in the Western Ghats as far as I understand. They usually migrate between areas, but agriculture has blocked off a lot of their traditional routes, which brings them into conflict with people and generally works out badly for the elephants.

Cheers Julia, They're out of stock at the moment but they're ordering one for me.

Awesome photos Adrian, I just know my photography will let me down on this trip.

Apparently there are tigers in the area I'll be travelling!



They're quite rare though right?

Very, very rare - I think there are few left in the South.
There are more leopards, but you're very unlikely to come across them. My girlfriend saw one briefly in Parambikulam, but that was very lucky. I think elephants are likely to be the only conceivable wildlife danger and even then it's a very minimal risk compared to road traffic.

A few Southern highlights -
Christmas carols in Marayoor


Western Ghats from Tamil Nadu


Parambikulam sunset


Nilgiri langur


Kannur


Madurai temple


God... I really want to go back after looking at these again.

If you're free in December your welcome to join us.

Can't beleive it's a whole 10 months away.

Just watch out for dysentery.
Chapeau massively to those who have cycled it. I'm in Tala, MP right now and couldn't imagine cycling here at all. Roads are just too hectic for me- obv not here as it is the middle of the jungle.
I can report that it is freezing- today I was wearing two t shirts and a fleece then it soared to thirty plus!
I just had dysentery or at least that's what the local doc said- as far as I could guess- on the BRAT diet right now, and food actually stuck after four days.
On the plus side I saw 5 tigers today.
Good luck Steve and massively impressed by julia and ad441.

If I could, I would, but neither my girlfriend or my work are going to stand for me taking any more extended leave... I exhausted all my priviliges with my Sikikim trip last year I think.

It'll go quickly. There are lots of useful things you could do to prepare yourself - from learning to eat well with one hand to learning some basic Malayalam (not that I did, but it'd give you a massive advantage if you spoke any).
And it's an excuse for all sorts of bike part purchasing.

What sort of bikes do you think you're going to use?

I'll be using my singular peregrine with my 29er wheelset and 1.35 hardpack tyres. I'm planning on running it in a 1x6 set up with a 38T chainring and a 14-34 cassette. Luggage wise I was hoping to take two medium sized rear panniers and a bar bag.

To test the setup I'll probably do a 3/4 day domestic tour in July. London to Bolton crossing the peak district, luckily I have friends/family at 60ish mile intervals on the route.

My friend will be buying or borrowing a bike so not sure yet, but it'll be a similar set up albeit with more gears.

That sounds like a good choice - a lot lighter than what I toured on which is quite enviable, but then I think you'll have much better roads in the South. Only possible problem I can think of is that you'll only be able to get 26" wheel spares out there, so carry plenty of inner tubes, spokes and maybe even a spare tyre. But then in 3 weeks you're unlikely to have anything major go wrong.
I carried far more luggage than I should have really - mainly because I took a heavy slr camera as I knew it'd help keep me sane when not cycling.

My bike testing and training ended up being little more than one ride down to Brighton in the end - which was really stupid when i had several months to prepare.

Is that near Bandhavgarh? A great place, I remember having to get up at 4am to get tothe reserve and it being unbelievably cold. 5 tigers is excellent. Got really lucky and saw 3 the first day I was there, but no one saw a single one for 4 days after that. I'm very jealous (though not of the dysentry of course).

On the subject of illness - cycling in India I'd carry a good general purpose antibiotic (ciproflaxin?). I talked to a doctor before I went and his view was you should just start taking the pills right away if you thought you were getting something. I had several unpleasant bouts of illness, which always coincided with being in the grimmest, dustiest hotels in the most depressing towns, but none of them held me up for more than 1 or 2 days, which I think is probably down to the pills - though of course it's hard to be sure, maybe I'd have got over them anyway.

Adrian - Yes you're probably right about the rarity of 29" components, it isn't easy in this country. I couldn't bear to be on 26" wheels though, I've never felt comfortable on them even when mountain biking. Shouldn't be too much extra weight to carry a spare tyre, some spare tubes and two or three spare spokes though.

Antibiotics are definately on the list.

Yes, I'd have really appreciated bigger wheels going up those hills.

I took a lot of spare parts I didn't use at all. One thing you might be able to do is leave spares at a guesthouse in Cochin, as for the most part you'll only be a day's taxi ride away from them if you turn out you need them. Which you probably won't - Maybe I was lucky, but aside from a continually loosening bike stand I had no real technical problems at all.

I cycled in India in 92 on an Atlas, I believe it cost £15 brand new, assembled by “Indian technician” with the aide of 1 ill fitting open ended spanner.

Tied my Millets rucksack, also £15 onto rat trap rack and headed into desert from Jaipur. Spent as much time hitching, pushing & even bussing. Didn’t really have a clue but young & foolish. Eventually sold bike in Rishikesh to tea shop owner for virtually same price. Hasten to add I did not cycle all that distance.

Stayed in dharamshalas, truck stops and on string beds by the side of the road. Ate in dhabas and shat in fields.


Have been back and brought bikes with girlfriend in Trivandrum, rode to Ernakulam, train to Goa, bikes stayed on train to Bombay then Bangalore, then back to Bombay, eventually turning up in Cancona junction four days later minus their lady Di spoke cards. Eventually gave bikes away to kids at the guest house we stayed in. They cost £20 brand new, including being assembled by “Indian technician” in similar manner.

Whilst it is certainly possible to tour on an Indian built bike if your looking at putting the miles in and being serious then I don’t really recommend. Both Hero and Atlas are knocking out “mountain” bikes but they resemble argos asbo specials, fit only for riding the pavement in heavily urbanised surroundings with your hood up.

If you are tempted to go “native” I would defiantly recommend bringing your own saddle & some Lady Di spoke cards.

No matter what you do you’ll definitely have a magical time..

Sounds like you had a great time out there sp. I think my freinds gone off the idea of buying a bike out there for the tour.

I would like to bring one back with me though.

Has anyone applied for an Indian Visa recently? just wondering how quickly they are processing applications.

very fast.
mine was two days.
in on wed, ready friday, flew saturday (after procuring malarone at the last minute).#
Do it online then head to the embassy and give it in, really organised place.