London Fixed-gear and Single-speed SJS Cycles

Hello internet,

I like stiff wheels... but the handbuilt wheels i've had in the past pale in comparison to my limited experience of straight-pull stiff factory wheels.

So, Is it possible to build a stiff wheel that compares, for example, to a mavic ellipse, but with the inherant ease of repair and service that handbuilt wheels afford? Is it simply a case of wheelbuilder skill, or is the only way to acheive exceptional performance to get some OTP hoops?


Thanks in advance for any advice
Will tickle balls for answers

yep, find a good wheel builder, they will build the wheel to suit you, your riding and weight

just keep tightening till the spokes start pinging and then add an extra turn ( 360 ) for luck
that should get them nice and stiff

thanks for the ticking balls offer but i think i'll pass cheers

do i get a free ball tickling?

and I cannot lie

You sure? I'm very dexterous

SURE YOU ARE but the offer is still declined thanks

Good point. I suppose what i'm asking is... will the j-bend spoke design be able to get the same performance/feel as a straight-pull roadie try-hard wheel?

Your loss. My special finishing move is infamous

i doubt a traditional wheel would be as stiff as a wheel with straight pull bladed spokes. but do you get brake rub or rubbing on the stays with conventional wheels? an super stiff wheel isn't going to give you a nice ride.
maybe tying and soldering on a trad wheel will help.

^ Brake rub is not an issue i've experienced, but do feel flex even on a strong handbuilt wheel (CXP33/Track hub). I don't really notice too much loss of comfort either, between handbuilt and stiff racing wheels. The difference in performance is very clear though.

That probably answers my own question of what i should go for, but I think I would still take a handbuilt wheel purely for ease of repair if it could be built up very stiff.

tying and soldering doesnot help at all according to jobst brandt

Amazon.com: The Bicycle Wheel 3rd Edition (9780960723669): Jobst Brandt: Books
Amazon.com: The Bicycle Wheel 3rd Edition (9780960723669): Jobst Brandt: Books

Can you repair a wheel yourself, or would you use your LBS for that?

cxp33 not exactly the worlds most strong or non flexy rim ;)

i go up and down in tension with my own spokes, depends on lots of factors. would of thought a handbuilt 32 with brass nipples etc would be way stiffer than a factory 16 spoke with alloy nipples.

have you contacted someone like the wheelsmith? sure you could get a pair of gigantex rims laced stiff enough for your needs, perhaps not using traditional spoking though

Thanks for the advice all.

@DB, fair point on the CXP33 - i wasn't overly impressed by them either to be honest. Could you recommend me some components for a really stiff wheel?

I have had a look at the lower profile gigantex rims, but lack of alu braking surface turned me off them.

I would recommend Parker International for nice cheap handbuilt road wheels.

depends on what you want it for?? the stiffest wheel i've built is a radial deep section 650 rim like a deep v or h+, onto a high flange hub. but thats not practical

i rate open pro's for all round use and lace them really tight as dicki suggested, till the nipples almost round off.

Damon Rinard article on wheel stiffness and types of construction

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel/index.htm

I lol'd

lateral stiffness vs vertical stiffness...whole big argument there!

i think, as ever, you won't get any objectiveparticularly useful advice on here, so you may have to speak to a wheelbuilder and explore your concerns. harry rowland apparently built a great pair of cxp33s for a storck..

Lateral stiffness is a result of spoke pattern/number and rim strength. Vertical stiffness/strength is affected by tension, but definitely dependent on what/who the bike's for. Getting just enough tension for rider weight/application is what I'd recommend. Sometimes there's only 1-complete spoke turn between 'a bit too much give' and 'fucking uncomfortably bone-jarring'.

Yes, but i'm a human :)

Personally, I think the advice has been very helpful.

Last point from me:

Factory-built wheel manufacturers tension their wheels for their heaviest/most bike-abusive imaginary customers. If they're not easy to adjust, you're stuck with this 'setting' even if you're using the wheels for general riding/training and you're not a 120kg rider.

One way to moderate this situation, is to pick a wheelset based on certain inherent characteristics of the parts involved in the build.

I own one factory set of wheels: Campag Neutrons. I'm ~65kg, and ride fairly light. Despite the high tension of the spokes, they do afford some comfort due to the shallower section rim. There's no way I'd pick a factory built wheelset with 30mm rim depth. It would rattle the shit out of me.

And of course these were the wheels that ~90kg Backstedt rode to Paris-Roubaix victory - I'm sure comfort was high on his list of priorities for that one.

yes you're probably right, dose of unreason this morning, possibly linked to sense of forboding over the 'festive' season


65kgs, sheesh, doubly grumpy now

Well, 63kg for race weight on the road, but I'm only 170cm tall*.



*vain attempt to be all modern and metric and shit.

You can build your own straight pull spoked wheels if you like. I cant see how that would make them stiffer though. I agree with the crowd (safest bet), build a set based on your needs and then crank up the tension some.

I would'nt use thin spokes for this thougth as wind-up can be a real PITA. I'd recomend a profiled spoke, something like a sapim CX-ray. Purely because you can see the bastard twisting on you.

I've attached catalogues for novatec and joytec, who do striaght pull hubs. Sourcing them is another matter.

*waiting till 15th December for 274mm silver CX-Rays to come back into stock - sigh*

having got 1/4 of the way through 40 factory built wheels de-stressing and truing them before we can safely release them onto the track, my vote is for decent hand built!

some factory wheels are build very badly and fall to bits cos they never got de-stressed properly. Most people who buy a factory wheelset don't expect to have to do this!

For stiff wheels you must select the right parts…

1. Rims with double eyelets take a lot of tension, for example Mavic Open Pro
2. Double buttedspokes can be better tensioned, DT Swiss Competition
3. High flange hubs make a stiffer wheel, example Miche Track Hub High Flange

Put them all together and tight them properly and you will get what you want.

Good point.

Most people stiff = deep profile.
But a lot of deep profile rims dont have eyelets.

he's right.
with non-eyeletted rims the nipples bite into the soft alloy before the spoke tension gets really high.

I'm fairly sure Mavic wheelsets are still hand rather than machine built. I've got some mavic eliipses which i've run on the road for about 9 months and had no problems.

But you don't need eyelets in deep/strong rims, as tensions don't need to be so high. It's horses for clichés.

FFS

its friday afternoon

you lot should be taking the piss, being rude etc

being helpful, insightful and useful is all well and good but give me some popcorn

this has been a genuinely constructive thread, so I will remove myself before I fuck it up

Off you fuck, cunt.

I had a nipple fully bind with the drilling while building with revolution spokes, in a non-eyeleted rim. Being the tit that I am, I was truing away, and not noticing that it was the same spoke causing the wheel to be out. Must had twisted the feck out of that spoke. Because when it decided enough was enough, it gave a massive bang as it unwound itself and quickly discovered it was a couple mm's too short for its position in the world. Scared the poo out of me.

We lives, we learns ;)

(wheel now rebuilt with supercomps disc side)

Shimano factory wheels are all laced and trued by hand still; gallery here

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/...-wheel-factory




Dura Fucking Ace gets it's own clean room

True enough, but would a medium tensioned deep rim feel as stiff/responsive as a highly tensioned shallow one (probably with more spokes)?*

*genuine question.

I'd hazzard a guess at shallow.

As are Easton.

But by a load of strangers. Not somebody whos name you can qoute when referring to your wheels.

So these dont count ;)

^ Just thought I'd highlight the difference between factory handmade and factory machine made.

There is a youtube video of an automatic wheelbuilding machine in action and it takes about 30 seconds to tension/true a wheel. Wouldn't want to ride one of them.

I'm going to go for medium tensioned deep rim (probably with more spokes) :p

+1

hand built all the way...

cant recommend Mornay (might have spelt his name wrong)
but works in cycle surgery on holloway road.

I build all my wheels in a hand build factory. You don't get better than that. It's all about purity.

factory or handbuilt? i like my purity from the ground.

all hand built, even the hands them self.

these hope hoops are built for a more substantial rider and offer many of the characteristics desired

I#m a huge fan of anything by hope. I like the look of that front as well.