London Fixed-gear and Single-speed

Hello,

Building a Vigorelli and got the BB and Miche crankset with the frame - the specified the correct components and I just paid. I noticed that the rear of the crank spider is like 1mm from the chain stay, with some pressure I can flex the spider to touch the frame but understand that this isn't a normal stress that will happen from riding.

The end of the actual crank arms are 7mm or so which I think is fine, its just the rear of the crank spider that seems close. I guess if the BB was to be spaced out the chain line will get cocked.

Are these clearances normal and acceptable?

should be rockin, if you are worried, space out the bb 1mm (it a miche one, yar?) and get a 1mm spacer for the cog (assuming you have 42mm chainline at the hub).

Sounds a bit close. Are you sure the chainline is right? I have a miche BB + crank and they don't give a 42mm chainline as you'd expect... more like 41mm (though i haven't measured in a while) and so i had to adjust the BB (you've got about +- 2mm)

mine the same (I've just double check it - just under a millimetre), but never had any issue insofar, even when trackstanding.

Well I think its right. The frame is with BJ at the moment to have the scratches it arrived with sorted.

I briefly built it up and it was a bit close I thought - but then, I don't have much expirence in building bikes.

How do you space a Miche BB? Is using a 1mm spacer required on the hub then if the BB aren't actually 42mm, I guess if its actually 41mm say, I just space the BB to 42mm and have done? BTW I'm using Phil Wood hubs.

I think I could only get them to touch enough to scratch the paint sort of thing but then I have strong hands!

I used Phils hubs with Miche Advanced cranks and Primato BB, the chainline is perfect.

Yeah thats what I'm using, could they have given me the wrong BB or am I just being a pedantic twat?

Yep its just like that. I'm using a Surly cog, should that all be sweet then?

On the other side of the hub I will have a Shimano freewheel if I want to switch to SS. Should bother the chainlines be OK?

I use a Phil cog, althought you'll be fine mate, don't worry.

everything's going to be OK.

Keep calm and carry on.

Cheers edscoble.

I was just looking at this:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainline.html

Was doing some calculations and it appears that the chain line using the fixed and freewheel are going to be different does that matter?

You just screw it further through the BB shell.


As for the chainline differences, get the fixed side dialed in, the freewheel side will probably be okay (how far's it going to be out... 1mm? less?)

Can't help you on the freewheel part, sorry.

The Miche BB is a 'floating' design without a fixed cup so you can adjust your chainline a few mm by screwing the drive-side cup in or out - still worth applying some medium Loctite to ensure it stays put.

Excuse me but what do you mean by that Rich?

I mean: I think getting a good chainline on the fixed side is more important than on the freewheel side.

So, given that the miche BB is adjustable you could try getting the chainline spot-on with the surly sprocket. Then the freewheel side may be a little bit out, but it probably doesn't matter all that much with a freewheel.

Hopefully that makes more sense!

For what it's worth: my miche has stayed put with only grease on the threads. Though I've heard of other people having trouble with them. Perhaps I've been lucky.

Cheers RIch. Think I should be OK, I'm pretty tooled up but do I need anything specific to adjust the Miche BB?

Shame someone isn't more local to help me build it - I'll sort a crate of beers out too!

you need a campagnolo bb tool.

i run my miche bb greased up but to the correct torque!

There are diff lengths of Primato bb see dotbike ; I got a 110mm (from verniers) from Bob Jackson with my frame when I ordered but most supplied are 107mm.

I assume that they supplied the correct BB, not sure until I get it back. Judging by the photo of edscoble's BJ above I have the same BB.

Small diggage, soz. Thought it better then digging the whole transmission database thread.

I (will) have a BJ Vigorelli, Paul cranks, and (will) have Grand compe hubs.
After I UTFS I decided to go with a campag Centaur 111mm BB.
Just had a discussion in blb, and now I haz da confusion.

I was advised that I may as well get a Veloce because there isn't that much difference with sealed BB's and I'd really just want a light one (I think this is the jist).
She said they use the Miche BB's (which BJ provide I think if you ask for a BB) because you can adjust them,or a phil.
I can't afford a phil BB and I'd read here that the Miche's are cheese. Her point on this is they are if you put them in alloy frames but fine on Vigorellis.

On the transmission database here I think I'm right in saying that the majority of people running Paul cranks have the Centaurs.

Any advice peoples?
Thanks.

Miche are good, but certain part on says a Miche hubs like the lockring are made of cheese, but they're still reliable, Mine still running perfectly fine.

Go for the Veloce, same difference really, if you can't get Centaur, Veloce is another option.

Cheers Ed. I can get the Centaur fairly easily I would have thought. Surely it's got to be better than the Veloce else why would it be twice the price?
I like the idea that you can adjust the chainline, but if the Miche have some bad rep, and the Centaur have good rep, then I would have thought it a no brainer.
Perhaps the bikes shops just have the perspective of fitting them, not long term use.

I have Velore on one of my bike - believe me it's more than enough, just because it's cheaper doesn't mean it's not as good, like the popular Shimano BB that's always been reliable for the cost of a couple pints in trendy Dalston.

The bearings on Veloce bbs are fine, the method used for installation is not. Go for Centaur and save yourself some hassle.

my miche bb has been fine for 4 months, never unscrewing, no creaking or anything. correct torque is key!

Good points.
I'm still leaning towards the Centaur. It seems they're all good and not much in it, innit.

Correct torque is another thread (pardon the pun) I guess.

Cheers all.

Get a Centaur, Joni.

Well since we're using first names, I better had. ;)
Off to Condor @ lunch.

I haz bought.
The seal was broken and there's grease on the BB threads and taper. Is this normal or have the cnuts sold me a second hand one?

It LOOKS fine.... hmmm....

Condor said they come like that.
Have never bought a new BB before!
Is this not the case then?

Also, I haz to buy the bolts separately. Fcksake.

Bolts come with cranks.

Not with Paul apparently.

Not with alot of cranks.

BBs usualy come with greased tapers.

Thanks H.
Odd concept because one side has dried off. I'll need to clean them and re-grease.
Is there anything I should know / look out for when buying BB bolts?

Be sure to cup your balls when purchasing and installing. Most do one, but not both.

the tool for centaur is the same as miche. so only one special tool needed.

Hi all. Quite glad to have found this thread to add to as I don't yet have thread-starting privileges. I have a Bob Jackson Vigorelli, with Miche Primato Advanced crankset and 107 mm BB, System EX hubs which are supposed to be 42 mm, and an EAI sprocket. I've had the bike a few months but only noticed this yesterday - so I've no idea if this is a recent development. Distance between the pedal ends of the crank arms and the chainstays is, I also note, shows it is all slightly to the left.

Pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...6/P1000641.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...P1000651-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...6/P1000645.jpg

I've no idea if that mark was due to contact but it certainly looks like it :( I'm pretty worried, but it does look as if it has only just gone through the paint.

Some questions:

What is the best solution? Chainline seems ok at the moment. Is this fixable by having the BB moved over to the right a mm or 2?
Is there a manual online on how to fit the Miche BB? Is there a Miche paste or thread compound for this? Am I looking at a f'in 'mare of BB woe here and would I be best to make some major changes to BB / crankset?

Your advice appreciated.

ya just move it out a coupla mm, if its a miche bb the whole bb moves out, if not, whack a spacer between bb and frame.

Well, the BB has been moved over to the right a couple of mm and all looks well. I'll need to keep a close eye on it as I am pretty positive there has been movement of some kind somewhere along the way - in other words that clearance was not so tight when the bike was first built. So - movement of the crank on the taper, or movement of the whole BB?