London Fixed-gear and Single-speed SJS Cycles

somebody · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by finepics

I too live just around the corner from this and that junction has borne witness to many accidents. My sympathies to all involved.

At the risk of sounding very controversial, given the circumstances, I witnessed a cyclist get crushed by a truck at the junction of Sloane Street and Cadogan Place earlier this year. In this particular incident the cyclist was totally at fault as the truck was turning left off Sloane Street, having indicated his intent, but for some reason the cyclist decided to undertake him. Inevitably there was no way that the truck driver could have seen the cyclist as at the point of turning the cyclist would not have been visible in his mirrors. I have also witnessed many other incidents of cyclist stupidity undertaking busses and other vehicles that are turning left having properly indicated their intent.

The summer always brings out the fair weather brigade many of whom have very little road craft,if any, and it's hardly any wonder that such accidents occur. Those of us who are more experienced (and particularly as car drivers ourselves) might be less likely to be involved in such incidents.

Perhaps cycle retailers should do more to encourage more riders to take part in cycling proficiency schemes, or even make it compulsory when purchasing a new bike, so that can at least some basic road craft skills can be taught particularly to those that do not or never have driven/ridden on public roads.

I am in no way defending car/truck drivers as of course there are a great many of them who drive in a most idiotic and dangerous way, I'm merely saying that in some cases they are not always at fault and that as a community we ought to perhaps do more to encourage safer riding skills.

but is it appropriate that these trucks are in our community ?

for example you may find that the truck movement was generated by the construction of an innapropriate development. say a basement car park for the rich. (and then it is the poor residents that have to suffer their anti social behaviour).

so from this kind of perspective i think that the truck driver, the truck manufacturer, the landowner of the construction site, the builder and the road owner that are all at fault.

the construction industry is displacing its dangers into our community.

somebody · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by finepics

Maybe this is exactly the time and place - to remind us all that London roads are bloody dangerous - something we sometimes (me included) perhaps all too quickly forget.

so please write to your mp / local councillor asking them for safer roads / a safer community.

link to be pasted shortly on whitechapel road thread.

jemjah · 18th September 2009

i can testify that an accident like this is totally life changing, in ways you would never even think. But thank god he is ok, and I hope he and he has plenty of support and is able to stay positive through his recovery, it makes such a difference.

i would really love to look into how we could send a card or something from lfgss - getting mail while you are bored out of your brain and feeling a bit sorry for yourself makes such a difference to your day.

JimboJones · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebody

but is it appropriate that these trucks are in our community ?

for example you may find that the truck movement was generated by the construction of an innapropriate development. say a basement car park for the rich. (and then it is the poor residents that have to suffer their anti social behaviour).

so from this kind of perspective i think that the truck driver, the truck manufacturer, the landowner of the construction site, the builder and the road owner that are all at fault.

the construction industry is displacing its dangers into our community.

I don't think that building a place for someone to park their car is an innapropriate development. Fact is people pay money for that privilige, builders get employed to build that car park, I don't see the problem there. The construction industry is a vital part of the UK's economy, just as Dustbin carts which empty our bins are vital in our communities. but i appreciate that this is not really the place to have this discussion

so really it is great to hear the rider is ok. Can't imagine how scary this must be for the family and the person and i wish them all the best in the recovery.

CrazyJames · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by jemjah

i can testify that an accident like this is totally life changing, in ways you would never even think. But thank god he is ok, and I hope he and he has plenty of support and is able to stay positive through his recovery, it makes such a difference.

i would really love to look into how we could send a card or something from lfgss - getting mail while you are bored out of your brain and feeling a bit sorry for yourself makes such a difference to your day.

Like wise, I couldn't agree more i've been there and its a long and shitty road to functioning normally again, I also had a few extra nasty injuries that were probably more painful long-term than the broken bones themselves, it does effect you mentally and physically (sometimes long-term, I have injuries/problems that will effect me now for the rest of my life).
As long as the breaks are away from the joints, and there is no major internal damage to the muscle compartment, he should make a really good recovery...it'll just be pretty long and painful, get well soon mate!

The Seldom Killer · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebody

but is it appropriate that these trucks are in our community ?

for example you may find that the truck movement was generated by the construction of an innapropriate development. say a basement car park for the rich. (and then it is the poor residents that have to suffer their anti social behaviour).

so from this kind of perspective i think that the truck driver, the truck manufacturer, the landowner of the construction site, the builder and the road owner that are all at fault.

the construction industry is displacing its dangers into our community.

Would it make a difference if an accident resulted because of construction of a basement car park for the poor (yes, they do exist)?

And how is basement parking anti-social. If anything, removing stationary cars from the external built environment is a more social thing. On non-through routes this opens up the streetscape for children to play (I fondly remember playing in the road with my friends) and for informal movement of residents around the area. On through routes this reduces congestion and allows more space for cyclists.

If the end result of the construction is an improvement to the area for society, can the presence of construciton traffic really be considered anti-social? Afterall, if smaller vehicles were bought in to transport materials and waste, the additional number of vehicles would have major traffic implications that would have a negative impact on the safety of other road users, including cyclists.

It's fair and appropriate that trucks enter our communities. What needs to be properly focussed on is expectations of behaviour and proper design for safety.

somebody · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Seldom Killer

Would it make a difference if an accident resulted because of construction of a basement car park for the poor (yes, they do exist)?

And how is basement parking anti-social. If anything, removing stationary cars from the external built environment is a more social thing. On non-through routes this opens up the streetscape for children to play (I fondly remember playing in the road with my friends) and for informal movement of residents around the area. On through routes this reduces congestion and allows more space for cyclists.

If the end result of the construction is an improvement to the area for society, can the presence of construciton traffic really be considered anti-social? Afterall, if smaller vehicles were bought in to transport materials and waste, the additional number of vehicles would have major traffic implications that would have a negative impact on the safety of other road users, including cyclists.

It's fair and appropriate that trucks enter our communities. What needs to be properly focussed on is expectations of behaviour and proper design for safety.

cars are very expensive to run. and as such the poorer people cannot afford to run cars.

cars and other mpv's make a lot of noise (and cause danger (sometimes resulting in death)). so yes i consider them to be anti social.

those people that live on so called main roads are adversely affected by this road noise. because the properties that abut the main road tend to be blighted in this way they tend to be the cheaper properties thereby occupied by the poorer people in the community. for example most people would prefer to live off the so called main road. and those that can afford to (the richer in the community) usually do so.

but the rich continue to drive their car from one car park to another. and thereby blighting other peoples properties and lives.

so yes i consider building basement car parks, cars, roads and all that stuff to be innapropriate development. not to mention the associated waste of scarce resources (oil, gas, uranium etc).

and also with muck away and concrete in they generate a lot of truck movements and it is these truck movements that are killing cyclists, pedestrians, residents etc (it is possible that the 26 yo cyclist that was killed on wednesday could not afford to run a car - in this country about £4k a year).

i hope i have managed to explain my thinking. ;-)

Hops · 18th September 2009

I saw a small van* this morning in Bermondsey with a huge neon 'CAUTION CYCLISTS' sign across the full width of both the front and rear windows. I couldn't work out whether it was a note to cyclists not to get near his vehicle, or just a warning to all other road users. Anyway, it was really eye-catching and would definitely have an impact on all traffic that passed it.

So, Thank You van, and if only there were more warnings/education...

*it may have been a people carrier, i don't know - was too dazzled by the neon to work it out!

Hops · 18th September 2009

Heal soon wishes to the cyclist in this accident.

somebody · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimboJones

I don't think that building a place for someone to park their car is an innapropriate development. Fact is people pay money for that privilige, builders get employed to build that car park, I don't see the problem there. The construction industry is a vital part of the UK's economy, just as Dustbin carts which empty our bins are vital in our communities. but i appreciate that this is not really the place to have this discussion

so really it is great to hear the rider is ok. Can't imagine how scary this must be for the family and the person and i wish them all the best in the recovery.

sure people need employment. but i think that people may be better employed in other sectors. maybe health or education for example.

somebody · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hops

I saw a small van* this morning in Bermondsey with a huge neon 'CAUTION CYCLISTS' sign across the full width of both the front and rear windows. I couldn't work out whether it was a note to cyclists not to get near his vehicle, or just a warning to all other road users. Anyway, it was really eye-catching and would definitely have an impact on all traffic that passed it.

So, Thank You van, and if only there were more warnings/education...

*it may have been a people carrier, i don't know - was too dazzled by the neon to work it out!

i am sick of being told what to do by drivers.

JimboJones · 18th September 2009

I think signs going up the inside of big vans/ lorries as warnings to cyclists are a good thing. When i speak to new cyclists, i tell them never to go up the inside of lorries/buses etc first and I tell them a simple rule...."if it is big then keep away from it" as in keep clear of coaches/trucks/buses/flatbeds etc just cos they are so dangerous and they often have limited visibility.

the last few comments by somebody I find just a bit bizarre. - Uranium? Builders becoming teachers/Doctors? wtf?

somebody · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimboJones

I think signs going up the inside of big vans/ lorries as warnings to cyclists are a good thing. When i speak to new cyclists, i tell them never to go up the inside of lorries/buses etc first and I tell them a simple rule...."if it is big then keep away from it" as in keep clear of coaches/trucks/buses/flatbeds etc just cos they are so dangerous and they often have limited visibility.

the last few comments by somebody I find just a bit bizarre. - Uranium? Builders becoming teachers/Doctors? wtf?

i think we need to restructure society.

JimboJones · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebody

sure people need employment. but i think that people may be better employed in other sectors. maybe health or education for example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebody

i think we need to restructure society.

I can see that, noble ideals, but I think you are living in fantasy land

east end images · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebody

i think we need to restructure society.

Oh, grow up! :-) Leave the class war out of this.
If you don't like an urban environment, move to the country or to a Taliban ruled emirate where there's loads of free space to cycle and everybody's poor and happy.

The only thing cyclists can do is lobbying for building more cycling paths and for an increased awareness of cyclists rights to fully participate in traffic.

east end images · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimboJones

I think signs going up the inside of big vans/ lorries as warnings to cyclists are a good thing. When i speak to new cyclists, i tell them never to go up the inside of lorries/buses etc first and I tell them a simple rule...."if it is big then keep away from it" as in keep clear of coaches/trucks/buses/flatbeds etc just cos they are so dangerous and they often have limited visibility.

That's right. I used to drive a Mercedes Sprinter (thankfully not long wheel base) with the AV equipment every now and then and you have to be really careful when changing lines and turning in heavy traffic (all those fucking crazy mopeds!). There's a blind spot - the most dangerous manouver for a cyclist is undertaking a van or a lorry while they're rolling in a slow traffic. They look in one mirror, the other, there's a space in front of the, so they attempt to change the line. They're slow, but the cyclist can go at full speed. If they even slowly move to the left to avoid a motorbike or another lorry, they'd block the space between them and the curb - if your bike is brakeless, there's a big chance you will slam in the side of the van/lorry.
Last year or two years ago they changed the regulations regarding side mirrors of the lorries, after those dustmen crashed an old lady (they couldn't see her approaching from the side).

somebody · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by east end images

Oh, grow up! :-) Leave the class war out of this.
If you don't like an urban environment, move to the country or to a Taliban ruled emirate where there's loads of free space to cycle and everybody's poor and happy.

The only thing cyclists can do is lobbying for building more cycling paths and for an increased awareness of cyclists rights to fully participate in traffic.

noted but not agreed.

somebody · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by east end images

Oh, grow up! :-) Leave the class war out of this.
If you don't like an urban environment, move to the country or to a Taliban ruled emirate where there's loads of free space to cycle and everybody's poor and happy.

The only thing cyclists can do is lobbying for building more cycling paths and for an increased awareness of cyclists rights to fully participate in traffic.

but on the east end beers thread and stepney to stratford thread you are going on about how dangerous your local community is.

what i am putting forward is a safer community for all - rich and poor.

fitzy369 · 18th September 2009

very relieved to hear the cyclist concerned is saved from being another grim statistic and wish them all the best for a full recovery.

if it can be of any comfort at this moment, a very close friend of mine is at last back on her bike after being run over by a concrete mixer a few years ago. Her physical injuries were devastating at the time but happily the human body is a remarkable thing and, other than scarring, she did heal. She has regained her nerve and confidence and is once more revelling in the freedom and enjoyment of flying around on her bike.

it is a terrible thing when these incidents occur - whether they are purely accidental or the culpability of the driver or cyclist for taking risks or being unobservant - but for my money, cycling is still the best way of getting around our urban environment in a way that creates minimum stress for me, gives me more of an interaction with the world, gets my body working and sharpens my reactions and is 99% of the time, enormously enjoyable. As well as helping to save the planet.

again, all best wishes to the cyclist and i think sending a card is a fantastic idea

Prime heretic · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by silver

absolutely right - i think we have to think exactly what we want the result and target audience to be. Then think of what the best way to achieve this.

The Cycling blogs in the Guardian and similar?

RPM · 18th September 2009

Quote:

I saw a small van* this morning in Bermondsey with a huge neon 'CAUTION CYCLISTS' sign across the full width of both the front and rear windows. I couldn't work out whether it was a note to cyclists not to get near his vehicle, or just a warning to all other road users. Anyway, it was really eye-catching and would definitely have an impact on all traffic that passed it.

So, Thank You van, and if only there were more warnings/education...

*it may have been a people carrier, i don't know - was too dazzled by the neon to work it out!

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebody

i am sick of being told what to do by drivers.

It's likely to be a van owned by a race official, there'll be a lot of those around London this weekend. Go to any organised road TT and hill climb and you'll see vehicles with that sign on.

east end images · 18th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by somebody

but on the east end beers thread and stepney to stratford thread you are going on about how dangerous your local community is.

what i am putting forward is a safer community for all - rich and poor.

It's pretty safe for poor, as long as they don't go outside their post code.
I think I understand what you are trying to tell us and I thought the same thoughts when I was 19. Many people had these thoughts in the 18th and the 19th centuries too. It's just easier said than done. I lived in a communist country, where they tried to repair the society, but at the end just everybody was poor and miserable, infrastructure was non existent and a black market thrived...

mr lunch · 18th September 2009

east end images · 18th September 2009

Here's about the changes - it's all about the blind spot
http://www.prprescue.com/Whats_New/E...directive.html

and
http://www.fta.co.uk/news/item/cycle...reeet-says-fta

Buffalo Bill · 23rd September 2009

Regarding the OP, I got this from someone I know at the Met:

"I've had a chat with one of the traffic officers who says he believes
the injuries sustained were not fatal or life threatening."

18th September 2009	#123
mr lunch	. Last edited by mr lunch; 19th September 2009 at 23:39. Reason: wrong place
	quote reply

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18th September 2009	#103
jemjah	i can testify that an accident like this is totally life changing, in ways you would never even think. But thank god he is ok, and I hope he and he has plenty of support and is able to stay positive through his recovery, it makes such a difference. i would really love to look into how we could send a card or something from lfgss - getting mail while you are bored out of your brain and feeling a bit sorry for yourself makes such a difference to your day.
	quote reply

18th September 2009	#108
Hops	I saw a small van* this morning in Bermondsey with a huge neon 'CAUTION CYCLISTS' sign across the full width of both the front and rear windows. I couldn't work out whether it was a note to cyclists not to get near his vehicle, or just a warning to all other road users. Anyway, it was really eye-catching and would definitely have an impact on all traffic that passed it. So, Thank You van, and if only there were more warnings/education... *it may have been a people carrier, i don't know - was too dazzled by the neon to work it out!
	quote reply

18th September 2009	#109
Hops	Heal soon wishes to the cyclist in this accident.
	quote reply

18th September 2009	#112
JimboJones	I think signs going up the inside of big vans/ lorries as warnings to cyclists are a good thing. When i speak to new cyclists, i tell them never to go up the inside of lorries/buses etc first and I tell them a simple rule...."if it is big then keep away from it" as in keep clear of coaches/trucks/buses/flatbeds etc just cos they are so dangerous and they often have limited visibility. the last few comments by somebody I find just a bit bizarre. - Uranium? Builders becoming teachers/Doctors? wtf?
	quote reply

18th September 2009	#119
fitzy369	very relieved to hear the cyclist concerned is saved from being another grim statistic and wish them all the best for a full recovery. if it can be of any comfort at this moment, a very close friend of mine is at last back on her bike after being run over by a concrete mixer a few years ago. Her physical injuries were devastating at the time but happily the human body is a remarkable thing and, other than scarring, she did heal. She has regained her nerve and confidence and is once more revelling in the freedom and enjoyment of flying around on her bike. it is a terrible thing when these incidents occur - whether they are purely accidental or the culpability of the driver or cyclist for taking risks or being unobservant - but for my money, cycling is still the best way of getting around our urban environment in a way that creates minimum stress for me, gives me more of an interaction with the world, gets my body working and sharpens my reactions and is 99% of the time, enormously enjoyable. As well as helping to save the planet. again, all best wishes to the cyclist and i think sending a card is a fantastic idea
	quote reply

18th September 2009	#124
east end images	Here's about the changes - it's all about the blind spot http://www.prprescue.com/Whats_New/E...directive.html and http://www.fta.co.uk/news/item/cycle...reeet-says-fta
	quote reply

23rd September 2009	#125
Buffalo Bill	Regarding the OP, I got this from someone I know at the Met: "I've had a chat with one of the traffic officers who says he believes the injuries sustained were not fatal or life threatening."
	quote reply

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