London Fixed-gear and Single-speed

Dammit · 2nd February 2012

Because a lot of people fit one anyway?

Smallfurry · 2nd February 2012

belt'n'braces.

hippy · 2nd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dammit

Velonews say shifting is now better (front and rear) than DA 7900.

And Cyclingnews say...

front: "It's still not quite on par with Shimano Dura-Ace".
rear: "still not quite as slick or smooth as Shimano"

but also

"if anything, Red now seems poised to give Campagnolo's mechanical front shifting a run for its money"

hippy · 2nd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dan_

brakes look farkin shite

I agree. The old ones 'looked' far better.

Dammit · 2nd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippy

And Cyclingnews say...

front: "It's still not quite on par with Shimano Dura-Ace".
rear: "still not quite as slick or smooth as Shimano"

but also

"if anything, Red now seems poised to give Campagnolo's mechanical front shifting a run for its money"

Contradiction-O-rama then, Campag front shifting (mech) is better than Shimano (mech), or so I understood (my own comparison is based on Ultegra vs Chorus).

This is all received wisdom and conjecture though really, wonder when we will be able to buy the new Red and find out?

hippy · 2nd February 2012

DA is best

Fin.

skunkworks · 2nd February 2012

I've understood most pro teams use Red. Why is this? SRAM spending millions on marketing?

EDIT: Nothing to do with performance, but Jesus H. Motherfucker Ultegra and Dura-Ace cranks look like shit.

Dammit · 2nd February 2012

http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?p=11433

sumo · 2nd February 2012

£2k
fuck.

sohi · 2nd February 2012

all those tests of the new RED seam to be saying that the current REd is shite.

hippy · 2nd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by skunkworks

I've understood most pro teams use Red. Why is this? SRAM spending millions on marketing?

You understood wrong.

hippy · 2nd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by sohi

all those tests of the new RED seam to be saying that the current REd is shite.

It is. At least when compared to the other top-end choices.

Dammit · 2nd February 2012

That's just not true though is it?

Rear shifting is very good- that's on a par with the other two.

Front shifting was sub-par, but that has been addressed now.

Different generations, but I find my 2011 Force rear shift to be much better than my previous Ultegra/DA.

My 2011 Apex is better than my old Ultegra/DA, come to that.

hippy · 2nd February 2012

'Current' Red is shite. New Red is less shite. Glad we agree.

Dammit · 2nd February 2012

Not important to you, but new Red is over half a kilo lighter than DA.

That's a fair amount of weight.

hippy · 2nd February 2012

You're right, it's not important to me. I need stuff to work properly all the time, under pressure, with a large lump of meat riding a bike trying to break everything.

I'll gladly change my opinion on the new Red when I've used it.. if it's better.

Dammit · 2nd February 2012

Doesn't sound like you are willing to give it any sort of chance, so how are you ever going to know if it is better/worse/the same?

hippy · 2nd February 2012

When I ride the new one I will know, obviously.

konijn · 2nd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dammit

My 2011 Apex is better than my old Ultegra/DA, come to that.

Not specifically aimed at you, but in general how much of this is down to the parts, and how much is down to set-up/installation?

Dammit · 2nd February 2012

Not sure- I installed/set up both the Ultegra/DA, and the Apex/Apex+Force/Force, if that helps at all.

Ultegra/DA was with Shimano cables, Apex/Apex with the Sram ones, and Force/Force are Alligator iLink, the Ultegra/DA was on the bike that is now Force/Force, so same cable runs etc.

BringMeMyFix · 2nd February 2012

I like the way you can make the metal belt thing jump onto different sized sawing circles. It's like a machine or something.

skunkworks · 3rd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippy

You understood wrong.

I referred to this article:
http://inrng.com/2011/01/2011-team-b...of-campagnolo/

Not sure how good a coverage of things it provides.

hippy · 3rd February 2012

The list I posted is 2012 yours for 2011. I'm sure Garmin were using Di2 whereas your list says SRAM.

That's even worse for SRAM if teams are moving back to Shimano after a season. Perhaps SRAM doesn't want to cough up the sponsorship money since they've well and truly entered the market now?

skunkworks · 3rd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippy

The list I posted is 2012 yours for 2011. I'm sure Garmin were using Di2 whereas your list says SRAM.

That's even worse for SRAM if teams are moving back to Shimano after a season. Perhaps SRAM doesn't want to cough up the sponsorship money since they've well and truly entered the market now?

Now I know.

And I do agree.

Smallfurry · 3rd February 2012

What exactly does how much sponsership you dish out, have to do with quality of groupset?

joshscott187 · 3rd February 2012

garmin- cervelo used sram red last season. this season they chose not to have a groupset sponsor and buy Di2 out of their budget due to demand from their riders.

Guess Di2 is that much better for the pros. Want to try new red though as i like my sram.

I imagine the schleck chain drop vs contador is the main reason for the chain catcher on new red... really damaged their reputation as it arguably cost him the tour.

hippy · 3rd February 2012

I wonder if Boonen will be using the same setup for Paris-Roubaix this year?

_dan_ · 3rd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshscott187

garmin- cervelo used sram red last season. this season they chose not to have a groupset sponsor and buy Di2 out of their budget due to demand from their riders.

Guess Di2 is that much better for the pros.

Wow, didn't realise this. Pretty drastic stuff - especially as they've got budget problems this year anyway..

_dan_ · 3rd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippy

I wonder if Boonen will be using the same setup for Paris-Roubaix this year?

what was he using last year? SR?

hippy · 3rd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dan_

what was he using last year? SR?

Campag Fail-o-Matic or something.

Tom Boonen Paris-Roubaix 2011 Arenberg - YouTube

edscoble · 3rd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dan_

Wow, didn't realise this. Pretty drastic stuff - especially as they've got budget problems this year anyway..

Were they're the team who swapped their groupset around as they couldn't afford all of them for every bike?

Smallfurry · 3rd February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by hippy

Campag Fail-o-Matic or something.

Tom Boonen Paris-Roubaix 2011 Arenberg - YouTube

Balls. He's snorting a stash of coke from inside the sexy Campag rear mech.

hippy · 3rd February 2012

I'm switching to Campag..

jaygee · 3rd February 2012

Style over content. You know it makes sense.

hippy · 3rd February 2012

I was more interested in the 'contents'

jaygee · 3rd February 2012

Do all campag rear mechs come pre-packed?

Object · 3rd February 2012

Yours was but I've "adjusted" it for you.

Jimmy_Fingers · 3rd February 2012

My new Campy Athena is 'mazing, and very stylish, shifts very well and makes me tea in the morning.

That said since it is my first geared road bike I have nothing to judge it against. So in my opinion its the best

andyp · 3rd February 2012

^otherwise known as the 'scoble effect'.

Smallfurry · 3rd February 2012

To be fair. The top 3/4 groups from any of the main players are great.

Howard · 3rd February 2012

^ unless you have Campag Power Torque.

spenceey · 3rd February 2012

I've only ever rode with shimano my top bike van nicholas has 105 but then I'm not really looking for a top end groupset as I ride this bike everyday through the year.

105 does me fine, no complaints.

konijn · 4th February 2012

SRAM hydro road discs formally announced for Autumn:
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...rst-look-33108

Howard · 4th February 2012

^ but still no pictures.

Bet it's fugly. I'd pony up though, if it worked.

konijn · 4th February 2012

I imagine it will be something like the Formula lever:

http://road.cc/content/news/50510-ne...-lever-updated

rive gauche · 4th February 2012

..or microshit in aesthetics (not function obv)

_dan_ · 7th February 2012

I think I've spent too much time looking at Dammit and SmallFurry's builds - I looked at the relative weights of groupsets today - Ultegra is almost 350g heavier than Force.

Have worked out that I get 100g grams of that back by keeping my S-Works carbon cranks and can save another 130g back by using PX cnc'd callipers with Swiss Stops instead of the Ultegra ones.
#itbegins
#>>>>>weightweenies

edscoble · 7th February 2012

If there are weight weenier, then I'm a chubby chaser.

Smallfurry · 7th February 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by _dan_

I think I've spent too much time looking at Dammit and SmallFurry's builds - I looked at the relative weights of groupsets today - Ultegra is almost 350g heavier than Force.

Have worked out that I get 100g grams of that back by keeping my S-Works carbon cranks and can save another 130g back by using PX cnc'd callipers with Swiss Stops instead of the Ultegra ones.
#itbegins
#>>>>>weightweenies

Much as it pleases me that you have taken this step onto the darkside. I've heard nothing good about those PX calipers.

http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/view...p?f=104&t=7582

Dammit · 7th February 2012

A lot of people say that Ultregra is kept artificially heavy to make DA more desirable.

I've not studied the components side by side to have a view on that.

I would take Di2 Dura Ace in a second, with weight penalty.

But, given that my frame is for cables, and the impending obsolescence of the 7900 Di2, I will likely stay SRAM.

If you take the time to look at the weight then you start wondering "why is this so heavy when it doesn't need to be?"

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2nd February 2012	#351
Dammit	Because a lot of people fit one anyway?
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#352
Smallfurry	belt'n'braces.
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#357
skunkworks	I've understood most pro teams use Red. Why is this? SRAM spending millions on marketing? EDIT: Nothing to do with performance, but Jesus H. Motherfucker Ultegra and Dura-Ace cranks look like shit.
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#358
Dammit	http://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?p=11433
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#360
sohi	all those tests of the new RED seam to be saying that the current REd is shite.
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#363
Dammit	That's just not true though is it? Rear shifting is very good- that's on a par with the other two. Front shifting was sub-par, but that has been addressed now. Different generations, but I find my 2011 Force rear shift to be much better than my previous Ultegra/DA. My 2011 Apex is better than my old Ultegra/DA, come to that.
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#364
hippy	'Current' Red is shite. New Red is less shite. Glad we agree.
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#365
Dammit	Not important to you, but new Red is over half a kilo lighter than DA. That's a fair amount of weight.
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#366
hippy	You're right, it's not important to me. I need stuff to work properly all the time, under pressure, with a large lump of meat riding a bike trying to break everything. I'll gladly change my opinion on the new Red when I've used it.. if it's better.
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#367
Dammit	Doesn't sound like you are willing to give it any sort of chance, so how are you ever going to know if it is better/worse/the same?
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#368
hippy	When I ride the new one I will know, obviously.
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#370
Dammit	Not sure- I installed/set up both the Ultegra/DA, and the Apex/Apex+Force/Force, if that helps at all. Ultegra/DA was with Shimano cables, Apex/Apex with the Sram ones, and Force/Force are Alligator iLink, the Ultegra/DA was on the bike that is now Force/Force, so same cable runs etc.
	quote reply

2nd February 2012	#371
BringMeMyFix	I like the way you can make the metal belt thing jump onto different sized sawing circles. It's like a machine or something.
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#373
hippy	The list I posted is 2012 yours for 2011. I'm sure Garmin were using Di2 whereas your list says SRAM. That's even worse for SRAM if teams are moving back to Shimano after a season. Perhaps SRAM doesn't want to cough up the sponsorship money since they've well and truly entered the market now?
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#375
Smallfurry	What exactly does how much sponsership you dish out, have to do with quality of groupset?
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#376
joshscott187	garmin- cervelo used sram red last season. this season they chose not to have a groupset sponsor and buy Di2 out of their budget due to demand from their riders. Guess Di2 is that much better for the pros. Want to try new red though as i like my sram. I imagine the schleck chain drop vs contador is the main reason for the chain catcher on new red... really damaged their reputation as it arguably cost him the tour.
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#377
hippy	I wonder if Boonen will be using the same setup for Paris-Roubaix this year?
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#383
hippy	I'm switching to Campag..
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#384
jaygee	Style over content. You know it makes sense.
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#385
hippy	I was more interested in the 'contents'
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#386
jaygee	Do all campag rear mechs come pre-packed?
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#387
Object	Yours was but I've "adjusted" it for you.
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#388
Jimmy_Fingers	My new Campy Athena is 'mazing, and very stylish, shifts very well and makes me tea in the morning. That said since it is my first geared road bike I have nothing to judge it against. So in my opinion its the best
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#389
andyp	^otherwise known as the 'scoble effect'.
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#390
Smallfurry	To be fair. The top 3/4 groups from any of the main players are great.
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#391
Howard	^ unless you have Campag Power Torque.
	quote reply

3rd February 2012	#392
spenceey	I've only ever rode with shimano my top bike van nicholas has 105 but then I'm not really looking for a top end groupset as I ride this bike everyday through the year. 105 does me fine, no complaints.
	quote reply

4th February 2012	#393
konijn	SRAM hydro road discs formally announced for Autumn: http://www.bikeradar.com/news/articl...rst-look-33108
	quote reply

4th February 2012	#394
Howard	^ but still no pictures. Bet it's fugly. I'd pony up though, if it worked.
	quote reply

4th February 2012	#395
konijn	I imagine it will be something like the Formula lever: http://road.cc/content/news/50510-ne...-lever-updated
	quote reply