A A A A
The Ultimate Brakeless/Front/Rear/How many brakes? thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd November 2011   #2001
NurseHollidaydonor
 
NurseHolliday's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by apolloxl View Post
not bullshit ramblings
You came to the wrong forum...
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2002
Oliver Schickdonor
 
Oliver Schick's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balki View Post
Jesus.
There is a Holy Trinity there, yes.
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2003
dancing james
 
dancing james's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balki View Post
Jesus.
is he your brake?
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2004
Oliver Schickdonor
 
Oliver Schick's Avatar
Will people please stop interrupting the conversation that Balki and I are trying to have, across continents, on matters of supreme importance? It's quite aggravating having to quote each other's posts when it could all flow so naturally.
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2005
apollodonor
 
apollo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancing james View Post
is he your brake?
only if you cross your fingers whilst squeezing the lever
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2006
Smallfurrydonor
 
Smallfurry's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by apolloxl View Post
lol just wondering if running a back brake on a fg adds any sort of benefit, and if engaging it is dangerous or not. looking for comments based on experience etc not bullshit ramblings
I pulled my front brake while on the rollers last night.

As a qualified scientist I should have been able to calculate the outcome, and not needed to.
As a childish idoit, with a reckless streak. I could'nt resist the instant knowledge.

The wheels slowed, and the momentum of my legs depressed the front tyre very slightly. I started to topple. So I released the brake and started pedaling again.

I had secretly hoped to explode though the living room wall, in a ball of fire, accompanied by a sonic boom.

But alas. Meh.
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2007
villa-ru
 
villa-ru's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by apolloxl View Post
lol just wondering if running a back brake on a fg adds any sort of benefit, and if engaging it is dangerous or not. looking for comments based on experience etc not bullshit ramblings
If you are not used to riding fixed it gives you an extra level of security.

Engaging a rear brake is not more dangerous fixed than with a freewheel.

I only deal in FACTS based on experience.
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2008
edscoble
 
edscoble's Avatar
Three brakes - ultimate control, i can go faster on the descent, can save my legs a bit, and be a lots more comfortable, especially on start/stop traffic.

Three brakes are fucking underrated.
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2009
Oliver Schickdonor
 
Oliver Schick's Avatar
Five brakes would be even better--fixie cog, rim brakes, and disk brakes. Brakes, brakes, brakes. Show the law where it can stick its pitifully under-specced brake requirements.
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2010
edscoble
 
edscoble's Avatar
Eight brakes tiswas, you forget the face...
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2011
Oliver Schickdonor
 
Oliver Schick's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiswas View Post
Seven brakes, you dangerously underprepared fool: Foot jammed against the rear wheel and hand jammed against the front.
Fool to you, you non-ambidextrous two-wheel rider who don't use your true potential.
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2012
Smallfurrydonor
 
Smallfurry's Avatar
You lot think you're sooooooo clever.
But what happens when if....

Your disc brakes have sprung a leak;
your rim brake cables have failed;
your legs are cramped with fear; and
you need both hands to control the handlebars?

If you are properly prepared like me, you pull the cord.
http://www.chinawholesaletown.com/up...5dfd195d72.jpg
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2013
Smallfurrydonor
 
Smallfurry's Avatar
Should slow me enough, not to have to employ the bar mounted airbag.
  quote   reply
Old 22nd November 2011   #2014
TMdonor
 
TM's Avatar
Brakes? Fixed gear mechanisms?

Brakeless freewheel FTW!
  quote   reply
Old 25th November 2011   #2015
mashton
 
mashton's Avatar
I have done some brakeless riding recently. Now I have put one back on. It was mildly exciting.

Thank you for listening.
  quote   reply
Old 25th November 2011   #2016
andypdonor
 
andyp's Avatar
A bit late for the TNRC bad dad award, no?
  quote   reply
Old 25th November 2011   #2017
TMdonor
 
TM's Avatar
I rode brakeless once, scoble told me off.....
  quote   reply
Old 25th November 2011   #2018
mdcc_testerdonor
 
mdcc_tester's Avatar
I ride brakeless all the time.








At the velodrome.
  quote   reply
Old 28th November 2011   #2019
mashton
 
mashton's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyp View Post
A bit late for the TNRC bad dad award, no?
Well, I headed down to the ceremony but couldn't stop my bike when I got there...
  quote   reply
Old 28th December 2011   #2020
bigben
 
bigben's Avatar
Saw a real moron a few weeks back. No rear brake, no front brake, ah must be fixed I think. Hmm flat pedals, OK no retention, whatever. Holly shit! he's riding single speed.

So, no brakes what so ever.

I politely suggested he might want to address this issue to be met with:

"I've been riding as a courier like this for years".

Darwin...
  quote   reply
Old 28th December 2011   #2021
mdcc_testerdonor
 
mdcc_tester's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigben View Post
"I've been riding as a courier like this for years".

Darwin...
If he really has been a courier for years, then rather than buying him this:
Amazon.com: The Origin of Species (9780517123201): Charles Darwin: Books
Amazon.com: The Origin of Species (9780517123201): Charles Darwin: Books cover
Amazon.com: The Origin of Species (9780517123201): Charles Darwin: Books
it might bet better to buy him this
Amazon.com: On the Economy of Machinery and Manufactures eBook: Charles Babbage: Kindle Store
Amazon.com: On the Economy of Machinery and Manufactures eBook: Charles Babbage: Kindle Store cover
Amazon.com: On the Economy of Machinery and Manufactures eBook: Charles Babbage: Kindle Store
which is wittier and simpler than
Amazon.com: An Inquiry Into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations (9781613821626): Adam Smith: Books
Amazon.com: An Inquiry Into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations (9781613821626): Adam Smith: Books cover
Amazon.com: An Inquiry Into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations (9781613821626): Adam Smith: Books
but gives the same lesson; that by allowing a courier to ride faster,the fitting of brakes to a bicycle permits a greater productivity, and a profit will soon be realised in spite of the initial outlay on the equipment.
  quote   reply
Old 28th December 2011   #2022
hippy
 
hippy's Avatar
"I've been riding as a courier like this for years" means he/she is still trying to get to their package or the recipient. They started the journey years ago and are continually foiled by bigger, heavier vehicles and hard things, like walls.
  quote   reply
Old 4th April 2012   #2023
jakemiddleton
Low profile bicycles and brakes

Hi

I was wondering if you guys could advise me. I am building up a low pro bike (single speed) at the moment, things are going pretty well with regards to getting decent and compatible parts. Now I am looking into how I will set up the braking on this bike.

On my current bike I only bother with a front brake. Seeing as the posture of the rider on a low pro is different I am concerned that if I were to brake from the front I would be more likely to fly head over the handlebars ..... Is this a misconception or should I really be looking into putting in a rear brake as well?
  quote   reply
Old 4th April 2012   #2024
rodabod
 
rodabod's Avatar
I don't find it makes much difference, but I do ride with both brakes for better control: cue argument.
  quote   reply
Old 4th April 2012   #2025
JB
 
JB's Avatar
Without taking the geometry into account I think the fact that its single speed and not fixed, for your own safety, would mean its probably best to use a rear brake as well as a front. But that's just my opinion.
  quote   reply
Old 4th April 2012   #2026
jakemiddleton
i didnt mention but my current bike is fixed. I have never tried a single speed before, so essentially this is an experiment.
  quote   reply
Old 4th April 2012   #2027
JB
 
JB's Avatar
Oh no, I am sorry, as you stated the new one will be 'single speed' I assumed you meant SS with a free cog rather than a fixed cog? If fixed, just a front brake will be fine. If you slam on your brake and you only have a front brake, you're probably going to go over the bars anyway, unless you distribute weight to the back and lock your legs up to skid, no matter what kind of a frame.

If running a free cog I would advise both front and back brakes.
  quote   reply
Old 5th April 2012   #2028
mdcc_testerdonor
 
mdcc_tester's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakemiddleton View Post
Seeing as the posture of the rider on a low pro is different I am concerned that if I were to brake from the front I would be more likely to fly head over the handlebars ..... Is this a misconception or should I really be looking into putting in a rear brake as well?
1: If your lo-pro fits properly, your posture is not different from riding on the drops on a normal track/tt bike
2: The small front wheel and short front centres do make it more likely that you'll tip over under braking (from the science point of view, the change in the position of the fulcrum lowers the magnitude of deceleration which will initiate tipping)
3: At this point, a back brake is only providing a couple of hundred grams of ballast to keep the back wheel down

If your brakes are working properly, there will always be times when the quickest stop is the one where the back wheel is barely touching the ground. You need to be able to keep the back wheel there, neither pressing on the ground nor lifting far off it, whatever bike you're on. If the first time your back wheel comes off the ground is when a car pulls out in front of you, you will probably go over the bars, so practice somewhere quiet with nice grippy tarmac so you don't get surprised at the worst possible time.

There are circumstances when you can't use the full power of the front brake, in which case having a back brake can make a small additional contribution, so if your frame has fittings for a back brake, always fit one, whether you're riding fixed or free. Not doing so is the dumbest kind of false economy.
  quote   reply
Old 5th April 2012   #2029
markrjohnson
 
markrjohnson's Avatar
Not wishing to stir up the "antis".
But:
Was having one of those semi enjoyable/serious silly commuter races into work this morning. Me on my double braked SS agains a young guy on a fixed with no brakes. Spinning along at about 23mph side by side with me progresivly upping the pace.
Off kerb steps I-blivious ped with a 90 degree instant direction change.
I stopped, (just), Mr Fixed collected ped in proper stylee.
They were both OK ish: Dents and scrapes all round.
Must be a moral in there somewhere.
Probably: Don't engage in silly communter races.
  quote   reply
Old 6th April 2012   #2030
ltcdonor
 
ltc's Avatar
I ride fixed with a front brake usually, but I've just swapped my forks over and can't get my brake to sit properly in it (keeps rotating around as though it's not gripping the fork) so I've been riding brakeless for a couple of days, I feel like I can stop ok under normal circumstances (coming up to junctions etc) but luckily I haven't had to do any kind of emergency stop type scenario because I really don't think I could stop anywhere near as fast as I could with a brake. Also, does anyone know what I mean about the brake caliper spinning/ how to stop it?
  quote   reply
Old 6th April 2012   #2031
TMdonor
 
TM's Avatar
Do you mean you pull the brake and it goes lopsided? If that is the case, loosen the mounting bolt a touch.
  quote   reply
Old 6th April 2012   #2032
mdcc_testerdonor
 
mdcc_tester's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltc View Post
Also, does anyone know what I mean about the brake caliper spinning/ how to stop it?
You need a brake anti-rotation washer. If you haven't got one in your parts bin, ask somebody who has.
  quote   reply
Old 6th April 2012   #2033
miro_odonor
 
miro_o's Avatar
Good call.

I was going to post but couldn't bring myself to write 'spiky little washer thing' and sound like a derp.
  quote   reply
Old 13th April 2012   #2034
ltcdonor
 
ltc's Avatar
thanks gang! I'll go down to my lbs tomorrow
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2035
Linc
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdcc_tester View Post
If your brakes are working properly, there will always be times when the quickest stop is the one where the back wheel is barely touching the ground. You need to be able to keep the back wheel there, neither pressing on the ground nor lifting far off it, whatever bike you're on. If the first time your back wheel comes off the ground is when a car pulls out in front of you, you will probably go over the bars, so practice somewhere quiet with nice grippy tarmac so you don't get surprised at the worst possible time.

There are circumstances when you can't use the full power of the front brake, in which case having a back brake can make a small additional contribution, so if your frame has fittings for a back brake, always fit one, whether you're riding fixed or free. Not doing so is the dumbest kind of false economy.
Tester is, as usual, right. I haven't followed the previous 42 pages of this thread but, in a pub debate, someone will always have their 'opinion' on the best way to brake. I've often tried to explain (after a few beers) that front wheel braking is the ONLY way to stop fast in an emergency and that you should adopt it as your sole braking method when riding normally because, as Tester says, you don't want to learn in an emergency.

So, I thought I'd write a quick piece on Physics for Hipsters explaining the theory behind front wheel braking. Hopefully in laymans terms. http://ligneusbikes.wordpress.com/20...less-clueless/

If you can't be bothered to get to the end (or even the start) then the answer is that front wheel braking, fixed or non-fixed is 2 times more effective than back wheel braking in an emergency stop. So riding brakeless automatically halves your braking capacity even if you're totally switched on and can stop whenever you want to.

It should also be a lesson for all the rear wheel brakers to start to learn to use the front wheel brake more effectively as you might just need it one day!
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2036
hippy
 
hippy's Avatar
42 pages.. I'm not sure physics is going to change anyone's mind.
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2037
TMdonor
 
TM's Avatar
Linc..... DAS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2038
Oliver Schickdonor
 
Oliver Schick's Avatar
I was into wooden bikes long before they were cool.
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2039
shinkuu kiss
 
shinkuu kiss's Avatar
What are the physics behind doing "whip skids" and pushing the back wheel out to the side? Does science agree that it makes you stop faster? Can you use science to test whether it makes you look cooler?
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2040
Linc
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinkuu kiss View Post
What are the physics behind doing "whip skids" and pushing the back wheel out to the side?
I guess it would be exactly the same as a normal skid. It all depends on how far forward or back your bodyweight is. It could be that you naturally lean back a bit more as you whip skid so you get more weight on the back and slow down quicker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shinkuu kiss View Post
Does science agree that it makes you stop faster? Can you use science to test whether it makes you look cooler?
Yes. Linear relationship between angle of bike relative to the road and level of coolness. Unless you happen to hit something or something hit you because you should have use the front brake instead!
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2041
edscoble
 
edscoble's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinkuu kiss View Post
What are the physics behind doing "whip skids" and pushing the back wheel out to the side? Does science agree that it makes you stop faster? Can you use science to test whether it makes you look cooler?
bit hard to explain.

skid - not slowing down. you're still sliding forward, it's all for showing off that you're in some weird kind of gang that goes around treatening cafe staff (as Lino said).

whip-skid (if that what skip skids is now called) effectively act almost like an poorly programmed ABS, by lifting and locking the rear wheel before it come in impact with the tarmac to skid a bit at every pedal rotation.

I'd says it's slightly more effective than 'skidding', and prolonged your tyres lifespan noticably so, either way, neither of them is still not the most effective way of slowing in comparison to the ol' front brake + fixed combo.
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2042
Oliver Schickdonor
 
Oliver Schick's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edscoble View Post
treatening cafe staff (as Lino said).
http://images2.fanpop.com/image/phot...47-454-316.jpg
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2043
hippy
 
hippy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by edscoble View Post
it's all for showing off that you're in some weird kind of gang that goes around treatening cafe staff (as Lino said).
Do they let you leave the gang?

  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2044
superjoe
 
superjoe's Avatar
condor.
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2045
edscoble
 
edscoble's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by hippy View Post
Do they let you leave the gang?
The moment I have an extra spacer on my steerer, they kicked me out.
  quote   reply
Old 24th April 2012   #2046
TMdonor
 
TM's Avatar
Many lulz on this thread, Ed, whip skid is not when you skip skid, is when you push the back end out tokyo drift stylee.... Linc, whip skidz if anything take longer to slow you down... possibly due to the reduced contact area between your drifting BBFG and the road... They do make you look infinitely more bawss liek, so, it's down to you what you think is most important.



Quote:
Originally Posted by edscoble View Post
...that you're in some weird kind of gang that goes around treatening cafe staff (as Lino said).
Sumo will end you.
  quote   reply
Old 25th April 2012   #2047
edscoble
 
edscoble's Avatar
Make sense, I only heard of this whip skid malarkey recently, so it have the same function as a normal skid then, a good way to show off that Levis Commute jean you're wearing I suppose.
  quote   reply
Old 25th April 2012   #2048
Balkidonor
 
Balki's Avatar
Whip skids/ABS analogy is lolz!
  quote   reply
Old 25th April 2012   #2049
Alkali
 
Alkali's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linc View Post
Hopefully in laymans terms. http://ligneusbikes.wordpress.com/20...less-clueless/

If you can't be bothered to get to the end (or even the start) then the answer is that front wheel braking, fixed or non-fixed is 2 times more effective than back wheel braking in an emergency stop. So riding brakeless automatically halves your braking capacity even if you're totally switched on and can stop whenever you want !
Being too lazy to read your linky, I'm still gonna question the 'halves your braking distance' rule. I'd suggest that attempting to stop by skidding the rear wheel only would lead to a significantly longer braking distance when compared to a front brake. My research leads me to put forward the stopping distance ratio of 5:1 based on sweet f.a.
  quote   reply
Old 25th April 2012   #2050
Linc
My 'halves braking distance rule' number was based on my own riding position on the drops. If you ride a bike with a different geometry, say with risers, then your centre of gravity will be higher and it will reduce the effectiveness of the rear brake further.

There is also a discussion on the link about how you initiate a skid in the first place and how it changes braking distance. People tend to shift their weight forwards to make it easier to initiate the skid. The further forwards you lean the further you'll skid.

So, depending on how you skid, it can only be worse than the 2x number. I was trying to show best rear wheel braking vs best front wheel braking.
  quote   reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Shimano 105 front and rear brakes for sale. Dallat123 Components, clothing and miscellany 0 29th September 2009 21:52
Wanted: Front and Rear Brakes QuickVit Wanted 1 19th August 2009 15:14
Wanted: Brakes - front/rear + levers (yes brakes) minsukito Wanted 1 18th August 2009 21:55
Wanted: Dual Pivot brakes(front + rear) tis Wanted 8 7th July 2009 09:17
Brakes or brakeless? jimalex Bikes & Bits 49 26th June 2008 16:57

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:24.
Creative Commons License, BY-SA v2.0
no new posts