London Fixed-gear and Single-speed

Velocio · 25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by jv

why dont they make some kind of half link thing for belts instead of all this fucking around with frames?

Compromises the integrity of the belt.

Arducius · 25th February 2010

Surely so long as the belt connection can out-last the belt, all is well? I think i read belts are supposed to last about 3(?) years, so as long as the connection is more durable than that, you're away!

kerley · 25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arducius

Surely so long as the belt connection can out-last the belt, all is well? I think i read belts are supposed to last about 3(?) years, so as long as the connection is more durable than that, you're away!

and it would make changes to the length possible assuming you could cut the belt if putting on smaller ring or cog.

Might need the whole belt thing to catch on a bit more yet before anyone bothers developing it but as you say it would bring the option of belt drive to any frame which is a major plus/selling point

31t®um · 25th February 2010

wouldn't think you could cut the belt then re-join anyway.
you'd have to put a smaller belt on

Mrlemon · 25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by jv

why dont they make some kind of half link thing for belts instead of all this fucking around with frames?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arducius

Surely so long as the belt connection can out-last the belt, all is well? I think i read belts are supposed to last about 3(?) years, so as long as the connection is more durable than that, you're away!

Do you not think the people currently developing belt drives havent thought of this? obviously it would be a HELLA load cheaper to have a belt with a connection, rather than chopping up frames all over the place, but as V pointed out, it would compromise the integrity of the belt. if it WAS possible, i reckon it would have been done by now.

mmccarthy · 25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy.w

tighten it a notch. Just like losing weight innit.

I wear a chain around my waist...

Velocio · 25th February 2010

Yup, you can't just put a belt buckle on these things... the threads of the carbon belt overlap and go around the full length of the belt, think of a whole spindle of cotton wrapped between two poles so the single thread goes back and forth hundreds of times... if you added a coupling you'd weaken the entire structure and focus all of the force onto a single point. Without the coupling you'd have to break a significant number of the threads to weaken it to a point where it would fail, it's much much stronger.

25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy.w

tighten it a notch. Just like losing weight innit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmccarthy

I wear a chain around my waist...

not only your waist from what I've heard ;p

Smallfurry · 25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocio

Of course I would. Can you imagine the cash flow I'd need to get started? I'd need insurance, company registration, storage facility, blah blah blah. It would be great though, at least the potential to make money would be there. More to the point, I'd be dead chuffed to be able to sell quality items that are hard to come by, as a connoisseur of bike stuff filling that clear gap in the market just helps people like me who like to have such great stuff... that would make me happy.

I am often surprised at the amount of cycling gear that is pretty much only availible through German internet sites.

There's a fair amount of high tech weight weenie stuff, and some pretty mind blowing internal gearing mechanisms.

I have often wondered what the market for this stuff is like in the UK?
Do th britih bike nerds just order from Germay?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jv

why dont they make some kind of half link thing for belts instead of all this fucking around with frames?

The Gates carbon drive is so called because the uni directional carbon fibres running along the belt. I imagine a large part of the systems strength comes from the bel being a one piece unit.

ED: too slow.

Velocio · 25th February 2010

Yup, I order my bike porn components from starbike usually.

TheBrick(Tommy) · 25th February 2010

I've found German sites have a better selection of cassettes too, also roses sell individual cogs if you want to customize a cassette.

kerley · 25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocio

Yup, you can't just put a belt buckle on these things... the threads of the carbon belt overlap and go around the full length of the belt, think of a whole spindle of cotton wrapped between two poles so the single thread goes back and forth hundreds of times... if you added a coupling you'd weaken the entire structure and focus all of the force onto a single point. Without the coupling you'd have to break a significant number of the threads to weaken it to a point where it would fail, it's much much stronger.

Should never say can't, there is probably a solution somehwere but no-one would be willing to spend time or money looking into it. The whole belt structure would need to change but it wouldn't be impossible, would it?

Maybe loads of smaller bits of belt formed into links of some sort :-)

31t®um · 25th February 2010

eventually there will be belts of loads of slightly different sizes as the market grows

mmccarthy · 25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by 31trum

eventually there will be belts of loads of slightly different sizes as the market stretches

Fixed.

Velocio · 25th February 2010

Well you could double the length of the fibres and wrap them around two titanium pins, then fold the whole thing and then connect the pins in a half link and that way it would be structurally intact... but you've just made the cost much greater than it was, and you still have the issue that the strength is much reduced as the fibres would now be tightly bent around those pins. Oh, and anything sticking out the side would now be incompatible with everything made to date, so the belt would jump from the beltring and sprocket.

Or you could just gate your rear triangle.

Smallfurry · 25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocio

Or you could just gate your rear triangle.

+1
simples
http://www.lfgss.com/post1148623-147.html

edscoble · 25th February 2010

I wonder how possible it is to gate a Brooklyn Machine Work, that'd be the icing on the cake.

MacB · 25th February 2010

http://www.sandsmachine.com/fbplist.htm

I was directed to the above site via EcoVelo to find various companies that do frame couplings. Retrofitting is a case of installing a S&S coupling, as per a travel frame, but reduced in size and into the driveside seatstay. In some ways I prefer this idea to having the opening at the drops, not cheap though.

31t®um · 25th February 2010

far prefer this idea
much cleaner and would be a lot cheaper
http://www.cycles-for-heroes.com/sit...-prototype.jpg

edscoble · 25th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacB

http://www.sandsmachine.com/fbplist.htm

I was directed to the above site via EcoVelo to find various companies that do frame couplings. Retrofitting is a case of installing a S&S coupling, as per a travel frame, but reduced in size and into the driveside seatstay. In some ways I prefer this idea to having the opening at the drops, not cheap though.

that price is for the two S&S coupling on the frame, not the seatstay.

MacB · 25th February 2010

maybe it's not readily available as this guy seems to have built his own frame:-

http://www.ecovelo.info/2009/12/07/g...rive-commuter/

I think it looks ok

Velocio · 25th February 2010

I have one on my bike MacB, they're available.

lucas · 26th February 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arducius

What made you change your mind?

Since I needed to replace my chain on the mountain bike.

Smallfurry · 27th February 2010

Some pic's of my belt drive.

If things thaw out some more, I should be able to give it a better test.

Velocio · 1st March 2010

The Gates price list from http://www.g-boxx.com/

Dylan · 1st March 2010

prices are not entirely outrageous, which is a suprise!

Velocio · 1st March 2010

Yeah, they're a little higher than some good quality bits for a trad system, but it doesn't appear to be gouging. Quite refreshing really.

rusty · 1st March 2010

Are the cogs listed as 'thread on' able to work as fixed cogs with a lockring?

Velocio · 1st March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by rusty

Are the cogs listed as 'thread on' able to work as fixed cogs with a lockring?

Yes, that's exactly what they are... fixed cogs :)

Dylan · 1st March 2010

what pitch is a belt drive ? 1/2 same as regular chains ? reason im asking is trying to work out what parts i'd need for mine for the correct gearing and belt length

edit]

no worries d/l the calculator from Gates site is quite useful.

Dylan · 2nd March 2010

ok so just worked it out, using this calculator and this price sheet Velocio kindly provided.

55t beltring
22t sprocket
113mm belt

center to center distance (middle of dropouts) is 410mm, min 395mm, max 425mm

it all came to £200 (converting euros using google), which is without postage or the cost of splitting the rear triangle.

if i had the money i would.

Dylan · 2nd March 2010

temporary fix probably yes, but not as a permanent solution.

bmxconan · 2nd March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocio

Well you could double the length of the fibres and wrap them around two titanium pins, then fold the whole thing and then connect the pins in a half link and that way it would be structurally intact... but you've just made the cost much greater than it was, and you still have the issue that the strength is much reduced as the fibres would now be tightly bent around those pins. Oh, and anything sticking out the side would now be incompatible with everything made to date, so the belt would jump from the beltring and sprocket.

Or you could just gate your rear triangle.

I kinda wonder if anyones tried one of these

It's basically an emergency one size fits all v belt. Addmittedly they're not very pretty. I use one on my 1 h.p. lathe at work. It does slip under heavy load, but I do think it, or a similar concept could be made to work.

Smallfurry · 2nd March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velocio

The Gates price list from http://www.g-boxx.com/

Brilliant.

I have plenty of drop out to go from 46:24 to 46:25, and 60 euros seems a fair price for the flexibility. Just need to check tyre clearance (and wether I need to gear down, I guess).

An extra Alfine-hubed rear wheel, to add the possibility of occasional gears, with shifter, brake disc (and adaptor), spokes etc. Looks to be around £350.

Think I'll wait with that one.

25th March 2010

http://schindelhauerbikes.com/#/en/models/viktor/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schindelhauer Bikes

The geometric shapes of our bikes have their roots in the track sport and in the world of cycle curriers which speed for miles through bumper-to-bumper traffic. We carefully modified the shape of our bikes so as to combine comfort and agility. The outcome is an athletic upright posture that guarantees you to fully keep track on the road.

wooodrow · 25th March 2010

wesbite design fail, I can't see that white bike on the white background!

Smallfurry · 25th March 2010

Athletic upright posture????

Arducius · 26th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooodrow

wesbite design fail, I can't see that white bike on the white background!

What bike?

mmccarthy · 26th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by vélo libre

http://schindelhauerbikes.com/#/en/models/viktor/

Obligatory stretched belt comment...

Smallfurry · 26th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmccarthy

Obligatory stretched belt comment...

Obligatory face palm, to the forum 'sexist car lover' ;)

mmccarthy · 26th March 2010

*Note to self: They don't think you're racist, be more racist.*

31t®um · 26th March 2010

slack fork angle

Smallfurry · 26th March 2010

Four candles?

26th March 2010

72 deg ain't that slack compared to a plug (70)

hael · 26th March 2010

no fork andles!

Smallfurry · 26th March 2010

what andles for forks?

hael · 26th March 2010

thats the one, and gimme some 'ose too

31t®um · 26th March 2010

Smallfurry · 26th March 2010

Thats three :(

Also
I has some of dat der duct tape, and a balloon. Could do ya'self some of dat der NAaaaaSA photo'in.

Oliver Schick · 26th March 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arducius

What bike?

The ninja bike.

27th February 2010	#324
Smallfurry	Some pic's of my belt drive. If things thaw out some more, I should be able to give it a better test. Attached Thumbnails
	quote reply

1st March 2010	#330
Dylan	what pitch is a belt drive ? 1/2 same as regular chains ? reason im asking is trying to work out what parts i'd need for mine for the correct gearing and belt length edit] no worries d/l the calculator from Gates site is quite useful. Last edited by Dylan; 1st March 2010 at 23:51.
	quote reply

2nd March 2010	#331
Dylan	ok so just worked it out, using this calculator and this price sheet Velocio kindly provided. 55t beltring 22t sprocket 113mm belt center to center distance (middle of dropouts) is 410mm, min 395mm, max 425mm it all came to £200 (converting euros using google), which is without postage or the cost of splitting the rear triangle. if i had the money i would. Last edited by Dylan; 2nd March 2010 at 00:22.
	quote reply

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Posted By	For	Type	Date	Hits
Novas Tecnologias surgindo - Pedal.com.br - Forum	This thread	Refback	1st February 2011 23:40	13

25th February 2010	#302
Arducius	Surely so long as the belt connection can out-last the belt, all is well? I think i read belts are supposed to last about 3(?) years, so as long as the connection is more durable than that, you're away!
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#304
31t®um	wouldn't think you could cut the belt then re-join anyway. you'd have to put a smaller belt on
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#307
Velocio	Yup, you can't just put a belt buckle on these things... the threads of the carbon belt overlap and go around the full length of the belt, think of a whole spindle of cotton wrapped between two poles so the single thread goes back and forth hundreds of times... if you added a coupling you'd weaken the entire structure and focus all of the force onto a single point. Without the coupling you'd have to break a significant number of the threads to weaken it to a point where it would fail, it's much much stronger.
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#310
Velocio	Yup, I order my bike porn components from starbike usually.
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#311
TheBrick(Tommy)	I've found German sites have a better selection of cassettes too, also roses sell individual cogs if you want to customize a cassette.
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#313
31t®um	eventually there will be belts of loads of slightly different sizes as the market grows
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#315
Velocio	Well you could double the length of the fibres and wrap them around two titanium pins, then fold the whole thing and then connect the pins in a half link and that way it would be structurally intact... but you've just made the cost much greater than it was, and you still have the issue that the strength is much reduced as the fibres would now be tightly bent around those pins. Oh, and anything sticking out the side would now be incompatible with everything made to date, so the belt would jump from the beltring and sprocket. Or you could just gate your rear triangle.
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#317
edscoble	I wonder how possible it is to gate a Brooklyn Machine Work, that'd be the icing on the cake.
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#318
MacB	http://www.sandsmachine.com/fbplist.htm I was directed to the above site via EcoVelo to find various companies that do frame couplings. Retrofitting is a case of installing a S&S coupling, as per a travel frame, but reduced in size and into the driveside seatstay. In some ways I prefer this idea to having the opening at the drops, not cheap though.
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#319
31t®um	far prefer this idea much cleaner and would be a lot cheaper http://www.cycles-for-heroes.com/sit...-prototype.jpg
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#321
MacB	maybe it's not readily available as this guy seems to have built his own frame:- http://www.ecovelo.info/2009/12/07/g...rive-commuter/ I think it looks ok
	quote reply

25th February 2010	#322
Velocio	I have one on my bike MacB, they're available.
	quote reply

1st March 2010	#326
Dylan	prices are not entirely outrageous, which is a suprise!
	quote reply

1st March 2010	#327
Velocio	Yeah, they're a little higher than some good quality bits for a trad system, but it doesn't appear to be gouging. Quite refreshing really.
	quote reply

1st March 2010	#328
rusty	Are the cogs listed as 'thread on' able to work as fixed cogs with a lockring?
	quote reply

2nd March 2010	#332
Dylan	temporary fix probably yes, but not as a permanent solution.
	quote reply

25th March 2010	#336
wooodrow	wesbite design fail, I can't see that white bike on the white background!
	quote reply

25th March 2010	#337
Smallfurry	Athletic upright posture????
	quote reply

26th March 2010	#341
mmccarthy	Note to self: They don't think you're racist, be more racist.
	quote reply

26th March 2010	#344
vélo libre	72 deg ain't that slack compared to a plug (70)
	quote reply

26th March 2010	#346
Smallfurry	what andles for forks?
	quote reply

26th March 2010	#347
hael	thats the one, and gimme some 'ose too
	quote reply

26th March 2010	#349
Smallfurry	Thats three :( Also I has some of dat der duct tape, and a balloon. Could do ya'self some of dat der NAaaaaSA photo'in.
	quote reply

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