Running

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  • Seeing as we have threads for shitball and carse why not a thread dedicated to that other healthy(ish) form of sport/transport? Yeah, I'm now a splitter. Fuck it.

    I know a few of you are already serious runners (dogs, tmy) and others are triathletes and there's some marathoners on here.

    Anyway, I've had this brilliant idea to use running as cross training for cycling events. Why? I stopped running since it fucked my sprinting. No sprinting now so why not see if running can offer any advantages - weight loss (haw haw), bit more upper body work, completely fuck up my existing muscle imbalances, etc.

    Those of you that run and cycle - how much running are you doing and how do you feel this running affects your cycling?

    One other thing, how do you know when to change your shoes?
    I think I have a few hundred kay on mine and I read ages ago that there were limits to shoe life (I mean before them totally falling apart). How can I tell if I need new ones and any suggestions for running shops that know anything about matching shoes to runners?

    I've just run my first 30min since 2006 and clearly the pain and indignity has got to me! :S

  • Up and running in Dulwich were recommended to me for matching shoes to your running style. I'm no expert but they sounded like they knew what they were talking about and the shoes that I bought sorted out a nagging knee pain.

    I don't run seriously, just around 8-10k once or twice a week.

  • Yeah I'm only looking to do 5-10k a week and will stop as soon as I see injuries appear or power drop (unless weight drops too).

  • Run Hippy, Run!

  • I stopped running since it fucked my sprinting. No sprinting now so why not see if running can offer any advantages

    Are you saying that running fucked up your sprinting on a bike? Why would that happen?

  • Training for the first marathon in Prague in May, so doing a fair bit of running.

    I find it helps my cycling as it improves my general fitness, especially if i'm a bit short on time 45 minute run and I feel I've got some benefit whereas 45 minutes on the bike and I wish I had a couple more hours.

  • I would seriously recommed getting some decent running shoes with proper support to ensure your knees do not suffer. Any decent running shop will be able to help and you can often get really good discounts on last seasons running shoes. I used to run to work a few years (clapham / barbican) which was relatively pleasant.

  • Hey Hippy.
    I used to run for the Uni here in Brum, the lung busting 400m. I got myself into a mess if i'm honest - taking it way too seriously. My diet was clinical, my training sessions were brutal and as i was studying Physiotherapy, i had a pretty full on schedule. I became emaciated, pretty "OCD" about calories in versus calories out, and as a result I had no energy to get on the bike. i agree with you not being able to sprint...
    I quit running for the Uni - but a few years on now I'm knocking out a good 10k time, and have got that base level of fitness to thank for my performance on the bike. I get easily hooked on the feelgood factor of any exercise...
    As for the footwear issue, you can tell heaps by the worn tread. Get a reputable store to have a look at the shoes AND your gait, and you should get the right shoes to suit. Failing that, take a photo of your currrent runners and lets take a gander!
    Go get 'em champ!

  • Running the bath half in 6 weeks or so. Knees and ankles fucked from too much football on hard ground and running home (achiles tendonitis), need new trainers, training is sporadic.

  • Running the bath half in 6 weeks or so.

    You're running the bath in 6 weeks? Hope the shower is working then.

  • Running a bath

    Fixed

    Is the extend of my running in the last 6 years

  • oh dude - sorry to harp on here, but if you go to a store and they give you a neutral shoe but with an insert/custom insole (there are some big money spinners about at present), thank them in true Hippy style and leave.
    I only say this because over time, your ankles. knees and hips may have adapted to suit your running style. If you put any form of rigid insole in your runners - you are putting your joints into an unfamiliar position that, upon impact, will cause injury.
    A specific, supportive running shoe is designed to absorb the impact and flex accordingly...
    I apologise if that seems obvious, but my local store did exactly that, expecting me to pay £49 in addition to the trainers. Pah!

  • Hippy: it just so happens that i spent 4 years of my life selling running shoes while i was at uni. you can tell when your shoes are buggered because they'll feel 'flat', the cushioning in the midsole will lose its ability to rebound properly (this is called compression set). you will possibly notice some creases forming in the midsole, too.

    Getting the correct shoe type and fit is really important. You could check out Runner's Need in Holborn (above Cycle Surgery), they have treadmills to check your gait and make sure you get the right shoe, and all the staff are proper runners AFAIK. I'm sure there are many other shops in London that offer a similar service.

    Basically there are three types of foot: over-pronator, neutral and under-pronator. Over-pronators (generally flat feet but not always) roll inwards too much, and need a stable shoe with plenty of support on the medial side (usually a medial "post" made of higher-density material). Under-pronators don't roll enough and need shitloads of cushioning to absorb shock, and neutral runners need something in the middle. More people over-pronate than under-pronate.

    I personally find running much more aerobically challenging than cycling. maybe i'm not riding hard enough though... also I strip weight off much faster running than riding. not as good for transport, though.

  • +1 badtmy.

  • oh dude - sorry to harp on here, but if you go to a store and they give you a neutral shoe but with an insert/custom insole (there are some big money spinners about at present), thank them in true Hippy style and leave.
    I only say this because over time, your ankles. knees and hips may have adapted to suit your running style. If you put any form of rigid insole in your runners - you are putting your joints into an unfamiliar position that, upon impact, will cause injury.
    A specific, supportive running shoe is designed to absorb the impact and flex accordingly...
    I apologise if that seems obvious, but my local store did exactly that, expecting me to pay £49 in addition to the trainers. Pah!

    true to an extent, but podiatrists often prescribe an insole to correct poor biomechanics, so insoles can definitely have their uses. for most people, getting the right shoe is the best bet, you shouldn't need a £49 insole unless your podiatrist tells you to.

  • Run and Become is another shop off Victoria Street (near St James Park station).

  • ^^Absolutely.
    I failed to stress that in some instances, and certainly in some stores, there are staff who could simply pick up an "Off the shelf" product tell and you it's what you need, and think they are doing a great job, when actually they could me making things worse.
    Insoles and custom orthotics are excellent products, but do need to be prescribed by a pro.

  • Are you saying that running fucked up your sprinting on a bike? Why would that happen?

    I'm guessing things like wrong muscle groups being used, ie. even tighter hamstrings.
    Insufficient recovery from the (more damaging) running. It basically caned my legs and left them feeling quite dead even when I was running regularly. Not just sprinting either, it fucked my times up the "1 in 20"* too.

    *popular climb in east Melbourne

  • I went in to Run and Become for new sprinting spikes and no one could help me make a buying decision other than telling me that a £90 spike would be better than a £50 spike. I have no experience buying running trainers from there though and I'm sure they're probably adequate at that. In my experience the best shops are usually attached to clubs/tracks.

    When I do run, I run in Asics, the best I can afford at the time. I've tried Adidas, Nike and Puma none of which have fitted my feet properly. You may need to do some trial and error for new shoes.

  • The shoe guys claim a shoe does not last more than 1200k. Some experianced runners take the approche to run a shoe as till the weakes part (knee, achilles tendons, hips, back) in the system starts complaining. Others keep track of the millage of their different shoes along with their log.

    If you start running or pick it up again invest in some new shoes. RunAndBecome are pretty good. They have you actually run outside the shop and dont strap you to a threadmill and vidotape and slowmo marking-talk ...

    As to what extend it effects cycling I am not too sure as I came form running (back) to cycling. I think it is a pefect workout for areobic excercise, and metobolic economie. It also give a very direct feedback on the intensity, after a while one has a very good feel for the heartrate, speed you are going and how far you are above aerobic threashold. So you train to keep a very percistent output. That is also a problem for many runners/joggers as they are not getting any faster. Intervals are the only way to go faster altough the type of intervals is critical depending on the discipline you are training for.
    Having said all that I don't have any sprint qualities neither running nor on the bike! Long distance and climbing I can manage.

    There are different schools of belive in respect to running style/form/economy it is a fairly complex movement and the only consesus seems to be that high stride cadence is benefitical over all disciplines. Try to build that in as you rebuild your running style other that that do as it feels right.

    It is very simple, some say dull. That's way I like it but also why I rediscovered cycling.

  • I just had a look and they're not as worn or squished as I thought they were.
    Most of the wear is at the back on the outside.
    Given that I'm never going to take running seriously and never going to do more than a couple of 30min runs a week I wonder if it's worth buying new ones until these are really fuxored?

    They are Brooks Adrenaline GTS (2004, 2005?)

  • I just had a look and they're not as worn or squished as I thought they were.
    Most of the wear is at the back on the outside.
    Given that I'm never going to take running seriously and never going to do more than a couple of 30min runs a week I wonder if it's worth buying new ones until these are really fuxored?

    They are Brooks Adrenaline GTS (2004, 2005?)

    Personlly I have never had a pair of shoes wear out visually (the black rubber on the contact parts of the sole tend to be bombproof), before the best before date (about 1500km), but I always replace them regardless. If your running on tarmac your knees need all the help they can get. The best advice is always to stick to grass/trails as much as possible

    If you are wearing out your shoes on the back outside part of the sole, then chances are that you are an overpronator. This means that your foot lands on the outside of the heel and the rolls inward untill you push off around your big toe. You therefore need shoes with 'structured cushioning'. Brooks Adrenalines are a good choice of trainer for over pronators (despite being made by Kiwi's) as are the ever popular Asics GT 21xx, and Mizuno Nirvana (my favs).

    A further test of running style is the foot print test. make a print whith a wet foot and compare with those below. I'm guessing at mild pronator (about 80% of people are).

    **Neutral- **This is the ideal foot type, though not the predominant one, and results from a high arch.

    **Mild Overpronator- **This is the most common type and shows an arch which is slightly dropped, requiring a shoe with some medial support.

    **Severe Overpronator- **If you wear orthotic insoles we suggest bringing them with you when trying shoes.

    Since moving to Norway I have been doing more and more off road running. I cant recommend it enough.

    BTW If you find your joints are being overly stressed by runnning. You could always try to mix in a bit of cycling ;)

  • I did that when I bought the Adrenalines. I was told I was neutral and then maybe a year later told that this info was bullshit. You could be onto something with the overpronator. But then I still appear to have a suitable shoe for this.

    I like the pain though so running is good/bad. Do I have to ride? sigh ;)

  • stop running.

    start riding.

  • Brooks Adrenalines are ace, I've been through shitloads of pairs of them. Good combination of support/cushioning and responsiveness for the money. Also, Brooks is an american brand, not kiwi.

    But running shoes are a very personal thing. Some people swear by New Balance, but i can't stand them. Some people only run in Nikes (Bowerman series only plz), and hate Asics. I love Asics Kayano (they seriously feel like they were custom made for me) and Brooks Adrenaline/Trance.

    Hippy: start running on a non-road surface (grass, trail, path), if after a couple of weeks you're getting little niggles in your feet/achilles/shins it's a sign that your shoes may be on the way out (accounting for the usual pains associated with starting running and using unfamiliar muscles). I would say a pair of shoes last me about 1000km, I weigh 73kg and i'm pretty efficient.

    Bring your shoes to Rolla league on weds and I can have a look as well.

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